[famouswaffles]

Either these supposed differences are important and they manifest themselves in observable differences or they aren't and you're just playing a game of semantics.

How is the LLM not understanding ToM by any standard we measure humans by ? I cannot peak into your brain with my trusty ToM-o-meter and measure the amount of ToM flowing in there. With your line of reasoning, i could simply claim you do not understand theory of mind and call it a day.

[steve_adams_86]

The difference is that we can reason about our experience with ToM and examine it to some degree (given with serious limitations, still), and know that beyond doubt you and I and most other people have a very similar experience.

The magical box is presumably not having the same experience we have. None of the connected emotions, impulses, memories, and so on that come with ToM in a typical human mind. So what’s really going on in there? And if it isn’t the same as our experience, is it still ToM?

I’m not trying to be contrarian or anything here. I think we probably agree about a lot of this. And I find it absolutely incredible, ToM or not, that language models can do this.

[famouswaffles]

>The difference is that we can reason about our experience with ToM and examine it to some degree (given with serious limitations, still),

Those examinations still depend on outward behaviors observed.

>and know that beyond doubt you and I and most other people have a very similar experience.

No i certainly can't. I can at best say, 'Well, i'm human and he's human so he probably has theory of mind' but that is by no means beyond any doubt. There are humans born with no arms, humans born with no legs, humans born with little to no empathy, humans born with so little intelligence they will never be able to care for themselves.

To be frank, It would be very questionable indeed logically to assume every human is 'conscious'. When i make that assumption, i take a leap of faith, i look at behaviors, see it is similar and accept.

Taking this stance, it would logically be very strange to not extend the same grace to non-human beings who exhibit similar behavior - being human is not a guarantee of consciousness in the first place.

>The magical box is presumably not having the same experience we have.

Maybe, Maybe not. I think the real question is why on earth does that matter ? We're not asking if LLMs are human. They are not. We're asking if they can model the beliefs and internal states of other entities as separate of their own - Theory of Mind.