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by crazygringo 486 days ago
Just because the ground is more stable than the air doesn't mean there aren't train collisions.

Air travel actually has a lower fatality rate per mile than trains do. Rail crossings can be dangerous places.

5 comments

If we invested as much into rail safety as we do into air safety, it'd be fair to compare them. Regardless, in the long term rail transportation is simply much more sustainable and increased investment is very much warranted
It's also much more pleasant. And in the rare cases when things do go wrong your chances of survival are much higher.
> And in the rare cases when things do go wrong your chances of survival are much higher.

That's a completely irrelevant metric.

The only thing that matters is my risk of injury/death per passenger mile. Trains are much worse. End of story.

What you're saying is that trains get into far more accidents, but that don't injure/kill you. On top of still being much more likely to injure/kill you.

And you think that's a good thing...?

You should compare to a country which invests significant effort into a safe railway, such as the UK.

There have been 7 passenger deaths in the UK in the last 20 years, with around 60 billion passenger km each year.

That seems to be of the same magnitude as aircraft passenger deaths per km, though I can't find those statistics in precisely the same form.

> It's also much more pleasant.

And much slower. Most people prefer shorter discomfort over a longer one.

Also sometimes more expensive because train service is much more monopolized due to the need for infrastructure betweem stations.

Granted the lines are a natural monopoly. I don't see why the usual regulatory approaches shouldn't work. The government could even provide the infrastructure similar to highways.

> sometimes more expensive

Examples? Because that seems patently ridiculous on its face given the differences in energy requirements.

There are plenty of places with functional rail systems to compare to. This stuff isn't rocket science.

Prices have little to do with cost when monopolies are involed, that's the point.

DB quote for "high"speed train from Frakfurt to Paris: from 151 €

Flight from Frakfurt to Paris: options as low as 76 €

This isn't a 100% fair comparison but hopefully serves to demonstrate the absurdity.

That is indeed absurd, and I would argue a clear regulatory failure. Thank you for the example though. That is pretty wild.

Still, there's a decent chance I'd personally choose to pay that premium for the comfort afforded by train travel while nonetheless being disgusted by the broader situation.

The Shinkansen has had one fatality in its entire existence. Domestic air travel is insanity, and I say this as a pilot and a flight instructor.
That's cherry-picking to the extreme.

Not only are most trains not Shinkansen, not even most trains in Japan are Shinkansen.

Only the Shinkansen (and TGV on my sibling post) can be compared to planes though. Local or IC trains might be compared to cars in the US.
Doesn’t the Shinkansen and other HSR systems get rid of at grade road crossings? Yes, without people actually crossing in the tracks, you’ll get less deaths that way.
Sounds like getting rid of at-grade road crossings is a good thing, who've thought?

Sounds like a good investment to me regardless of rail speed.

This seems like an awfully fanciful idea for anywhere but places with the most dense rail networks per sq km, at least if we're talking a full-scale refactor of existing infrastructure, in terms of financial, physical, logistics.

Is it not somewhat true that rail/freight companies have more authority over the land that their lines run through than the regions do? I may be talking out of my ass here, but I feel cities and provinces in Canada pretty much have to yield to CN or BNSF in some form or another; they operate their own police afaik. Railyards seem to be regarded as defacto permanent fixtures in terms of urban infrastructure.

Ya, the only cost is money and space, but you can make your own space if you don’t mind viaducts everywhere.
> Only the Shinkansen (and TGV on my sibling post) can be compared to planes though.

Says who? Right now, in reality, the only thing that makes sense is comparing existing flights with existing train routes.

And the TGV has only had deaths once during a test run.
I'm interested to hear more on why domestic air travel is insanity.
Railway crossings are not especially deadly if you're a train passenger. Most deaths are from train-on-train collisions or overspeed derailments.
I feel more comfortable with the thought of applying the emergency brakes on a train versus applying the emergency brakes on an aeroplane.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if aircraft can generally slow down faster than trains, assuming level flight and grade (or the same climb rate)

It’s not really fair though, because the aircraft has so much force acting against it from how fast it’s moving. If somehow a jet was moving at train speeds and could only use its aerodynamic surfaces to slow down, it would probably take a while.

What percentage of train fatalities are non-passenger suicides? The statistical comparison isn't very fair.