[fifilura]

Note that "US as a threat" was a strawman argument.

(Although USA has threatened to occupy EU territory in the last weeks.)

It does not have to be a threat, but if Europe should take more responsibility for their own defense, it would make sense build up their nuclear capacity.

(And I am well aware of the differences between EU, Europe and individual countries. But it seems to me tha France is the country to build upon.)

Ukraine had nuclear weapons that they gave away. Maybe they shouldn't have?

Also - universal healthcare is not about 1-2 percent lower military spendings (much of which goes back to the country itself). USA is a rich country, you could also afford it.

[wakawaka28]

Ukraine had weapons systems that it could not operate due to them being locked down by USSR leadership. So their choices were really to give them up, or begin reverse engineering and risk getting invaded by parties that didn't want them to have those weapons.

>Also - universal healthcare is not about 1-2 percent lower military spendings (much of which goes back to the country itself). USA is a rich country, you could also afford it.

We can't afford it. Most of the Western countries that have it can't actually afford it either. The US and the rest of the West are only rich in a very narrow sense, in that they get to borrow more than anyone else. Manufacturing has left, and everyone is running a trade deficit. It's time to turn all that around before our countries become 100% dependent on imports and unable to defend themselves.

[fifilura]

Yes, but France and UK has working nuclear weapons, my point is that it may give protection to build on them especially when their previous ally leaves the space.

AFAIK USA pays more for healthcare per capita per person. It is not about economy, but political will. (And I did not bring up this argument).

One thing that can be criticised though is low retirement age in southern Europe. But whenever that question is brought up (Macron has bet much of his political future on it), the JD Vance friends from the far right wakes up and start wild protest and collecting votes against (yellow vests, AFD).

I don't think we disagree that Europe has been naive in trusting both USA and the current world order with free global trade.

But that also gives them the freedom to act.