[immibis]

The problem with rich people is not that they are rich, it's the side effects of them being rich which cause other people to be poorer. I have no problem with Elon owning 10 megayachts if he wants to. Unless he's buying so much steel to build his megayachts that no one else can get steel things. Then it's a problem. And only then.

Even then, the problem could be Elon buying so much steel, or it could be steel manufacturers deliberately limiting steel production and only selling it to Elon to keep prices high. The latter is what is happening with landlords and building restrictions.

[dventimi]

Except that the "side effects" of being rich aren't "side effects", they're the essential effects. Being richer than other people by definition means you can outcompete those other people for goods and services. That's the whole purpose. Elon owning 10 megayachts means 10 megayachts (as much as $5 billion) worth of productive capacity being redirected away from other uses that benefit many people, to a use that is frivolous insofar as it largely benefits just one person.

[zozbot234]

Elon got rich by creating goods and services for other people - such as EV cars, or low-cost space launches. It's a wash. Oh wait, actually it isn't because every trade of goods and services is advantageous to both parties by definition.

(There are of course some who only got rich by transferring wealth away from others - but they're not the ones people mostly complain about wrt. 'the rich'.)

[dventimi]

Personally, I don't know any working-class people who can afford a Tesla, let alone a space launch vehicle.

[thaumasiotes]

I do!

I met a nursing student in Shanghai who ended up marrying a "driver". (For reference, the way you get into nursing school in China is by flunking the college entrance exam.)

Attending Fudan University, I also met several students there and at the school across the street, Shanghai University of Finance and Economics. Both are highly prestigious.

Everyone's graduated by now, and the most materially successful of all the contacts I made, by far, is the nurse. She already owns a Tesla and an apartment in Shanghai. (She also has a child, which is true of only one of the university students.) What's her secret?

The couple's parents bought those things for them.

[dventimi]

What's her secret? She works in healthcare, which is very expensive in the United States and especially in the Bay Area, and tends to pay nurses very very well (especially in the Bay Area). This illustrates my point. Her high salary as a nurse comes at the cost of many people around her, in many ways: we all pay higher healthcare costs, in part because of the high pay for doctors and nurses (as well as to hospital administrators, insurance companies, drug companies, etc.), and she's yet another highly-paid professional with the ability to outcompete other people for things like housing. Is she working class? I'm not convinced that she is.

[thaumasiotes]

This is one of the worst failures of reading comprehension I've ever seen.

Quick question: what is the only country mentioned in my comment above?

[satvikpendem]

I do, especially the cheaper ones. Many people buy F150s as well (best selling vehicle in the US), as they are about the same prices.

[dventimi]

The median price for a Tesla Model 3 in 2024 was ~$47k. The median price for a 4-door compact sedan in 2024 was ~$26k, or almost half as much. I'm sure some working-class people can afford a Tesla. None of these are hard and fast rules, and there are exceptions. But, which do you think is going to be more affordable to a typical working class person? The $47k car or the $26k car?

[satvikpendem]

No one said more affordable, the commenter above simply said affordable to which I rebutted.

[johnnyanmac]

GP said afford, not that they are buying them anyway despite living paycheck to paycheck.

[satvikpendem]

Sounds like goalpost moving for the common use of the word "afford," but even if we take it to be what you mean, that's still an assumption you're making, as they can afford it theoretically, and the fact that they do or don't buy is ancillary; I can also afford a Lamborghini, but I'm not going to buy one.

[dventimi]

zozbot234, why do you say that Elon got rich by creating goods and services for other people? What I mean is, what do you expect your readers to infer from this, or what do you hope us to conclude from it?