[Cthulhu_]

But at the same time, obedience, discipline and chain-of-command are ingrained in military culture (do correct me if I'm wrong, my main sources are movies and propaganda). But also trust, trust that e.g. your commanding officer knows what they're doing, considered the risks, and takes responsibility. They too in turn make decisions based on what they know / are told; if there's civilians in a target but intelligence doesn't say so, are you or your chain of command guilty of a war crime?

[ielillo]

Not sure if you read Generation Kill or watched the miniseries, but that is one of the main points. In there, there were two platoon commanders, Lieutenant Fick and Captain America(The book never reveals its name, and I think the series does, but I don't recall at this moment). While Lieutenant Fick was a competent officer that tried to kept the welfare of his troops, he often butted heads with its direct superiors since the order given to him could endanger the lives of his subordinates while not accomplishing nothing of value. In contrast Captain America, was an incompetent officer who gave reckless orders, was ignored by his troops and could have been possibly be charged with war crimes. At the end of the series, when the journalist is interviewing the battalion commander about why Captain America was never disciplined for his actions, the battalion commander answers that the same leeway that he gave to Lieutenant Fick was given to Captain America. In other words if he were to punish Captain America, he should also be punishing Lieutenant Fick. In retrospective is understandable, but when you read or watch it, you wonder why no action is being taken to discipline Captain America and why no one listens to Lieutenant Fick

[robertlagrant]

Having spent a bit of time working with the British army, I'd say there's a lot of pushback, either overt or covert. They even by doctrine have someone nominated in group decisions as the person who will play devil's advocate, to try and reduce groupthink, as groupthink is bad and they know it.

[rawgabbit]

If you did not know civilians were present, it is very unlikely you will be charged under the UCMJ. Here is an article from Human Rights Watch about the lack of consequences https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/25/lost-innocents.

With regards to movies, remember prior to the modern era many soldiers and seaman were forced to serve against their will. Discipline was brutal. In the British American War of 1812, one of the reasons for war was the forced impressment of American sailors into the British Navy. British Admiral Horatio Nelson acknowledged the critical role of impressment in maintaining the British Navy’s manpower. In 1803, he reported that over 42,000 sailors had deserted since 1793, highlighting the challenges of crew retention. He stated, “Without a press, I have no idea how our Fleet can be manned.” https://www.nps.gov/articles/impressment.htm

It was Prussia’s Moltke the Elder who recognized the complexity of modern war and the need for officers to think independently. “Subordinates would have to use initiative and independent judgment for the forces to be effective in battle. Campaign and battle plans should encourage and take advantage of the decentralization that would be necessary in any case. In this new concept, commanders of distant detachments were required to exercise initiative in their decision-making and Moltke emphasized the benefits of developing officers who could do this within the limits of the senior commander's intent.”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_von_Moltke_the_Elder

With all that said, it all comes down to personal conscience. Of deciding what is right and wrong.