[pjmlp]

Windows is the IPv4 of operating systems.

Every time a new Windows version comes out, since Windows XP, that there are forums filled with now the max exodus to Linux Desktop promised land is finally going to happen.

Meanwhile not even Valve was able to convince game studios to port their Android NDK games to SteamDeck, they have to translate Windows/DirectX, and lets see for how long Microsoft will keep tolerating that.

I have the Linux kernel all over the place at home, yet not one of them is a GNU/Linux distribution.

[Spivak]

I doubt they would bother honestly, Wine/Proton being good further cements "just develop for Windows, everyone else will accommodate."

[pjmlp]

Think how Linux netbooks was dealt with, and XBox wanting a piece of handhelds market.

[thaumasiotes]

How were Linux netbooks dealt with?

[pjmlp]

Microsoft made Windows XP free for any OEM that wanted to use it for netbooks, no license at all, and also made some changes to improve its use on limited devices.

That coupled with the usual non-technical resistance to anything that is unfamiliar, meant that in about two years time, all those custom distros for netbooks were for all practical purposes gone from the market.

All netbooks on shopping malls were using Windows XP, netbook edition.

Nowadays it hardly matters, because the netboook market audience nowadays rather use Android and iPadOS.

[thaumasiotes]

> Nowadays it hardly matters, because the netboook market audience nowadays rather use Android and iPadOS.

How did Microsoft deal with that?

[pjmlp]

With Surface devices, which ironically predate iPadOS and Android/iPad window modes, pluggable keyboards, but they messed up delivery, to the point higher ups responsible for Surface product line have left Microsoft for Amazon, unhappy with Microsoft's management decisions.

[reginald78]

Microsoft was forced to keep selling XP (Cut down 'Starter' edition was introduced for this IIRC) because Windows Vista was so bloated it was completely unusable on netbooks which is why they started using linux in the first place.

[pjmlp]

On Vista side, lets also blame greedy OEMs selling underpowered laptops as "Vista Ready".

[tombert]

> and lets see for how long Microsoft will keep tolerating that.

Is that something we actually have to worry about? Wine has been around for more than 30 years in one form or another, and AFAIK Microsoft hasn't really taken any legal action against them.

Are you saying that that has been the case because Wine has historically not been great, so Microsoft didn't perceive it as a threat?

[pjmlp]

Wine wasn't seen as a threat as SteamOS can be against Windows/XBox handhelds.

Think of how Microsoft quickly killed the Linux based netbooks, when they really started paying attention, then the new tablets market did the rest.

[tombert]

That's fair, I guess I thought you meant suing out of existence.

It's tough to say. Annoying Linux people like me tend to have horse-blinders on towards the rest of the world (hence the constant meme of the "Year of the Linux Desktop"), so it's tough for me to speculate with any kind of objectivity.

That said, Steam Decks seem to be selling pretty well, and people don't seem to mind the SteamOS part of it. I think that there's a chance that Linux will be a permanent fixture for Valve now. I don't think they're going to overtake Microsoft, but I think that "Steam Deck" is a viable enough of a target platform for game studios to develop against that it's here to stay.

[ThatPlayer]

> Steam Decks seem to be selling pretty well, and people don't seem to mind the SteamOS part of it.

I think part of that is because of its form factor already limiting the device. Like how Android and iOS are fine on a phone or tablet, but I doubt most people would want it on a desktop computer.

Not talking about the Linux part, but the real test with the Deck is whether or not it'll stay a target platform with its low performance and Valve not releasing a Deck 2 anytime soon. Valve's Steam Deck verified program already checks performance on games and newer games like Horizon Forbidden West and Indiana Jones and the Great Circle are failing.

[tombert]

I think the Deck might occupy a similar spot as the Nintendo Switch, in that it's not the most powerful console out there, but it's portable and nice, and it's a good enough target.

I think especially for indie games, which are typically less demanding than the big new AAA shoot-at-stuff games, the Steam Deck might be an "unofficial standard" for quite awhile.

Though I don't work in the games industry, so I'm talking out of my ass. Again, I'm an annoying Linux person so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[ThatPlayer]

I don't disagree about its spot, but I think the "unofficial standard" will still be the Switch because it has sold 150 million units. Valve haven't released sales numbers on the Deck.

Like you say, indie games are less demanding, so even the Deck can be overkill. I remember the Vita being the indie target before the Switch. So many good indie games got ports to the Vita.

[pjmlp]

So far, they are targeting Windows and let Valve do the needful, instead of actually targeting SteamOS.

[tombert]

Are you saying that Microsoft might make some change to their API that would be difficult or impossible for Proton to replicate? Otherwise I don't see the issue with targeting Windows and letting Proton handle the compatibility.

[pjmlp]

I am saying Proton represents Valve's failure to make SteamOS attractive to game developers, many of which are already targeting existing Linux APIs via Android NDK.

Also note that PlayStation makes use of FreeBSD, yet another UNIX based system, even though they use their own proprietary 3D API.

What Microsoft might do, there are legal and technical options they can take, remains to be seen what.

[immibis]

That does seem to be how it goes with most companies.