[Hasu]

Talk to any Canadian and tell me that trust in the US as an ally hasn't been irreparably damaged.

Global geopolitics are complicated. It's true on some level that no one trusts anyone else, but relative levels of trust still matter. There aren't many superpowers out there, if the US is seen as unreliable, China and the EU can step in and replace US influence. This has been happening in Africa for a couple decades or so, with China becoming increasingly influential.

These actions will drive US allies into partnerships with our rivals, which will make the US weaker. Everyone on both sides of the aisle understood this from 1946-2016.

[andrewinardeer]

Australia just gave America a down payment of $800 million to build submarines.

[LunaSea]

Submarines the US is incapable of producing.

[andy_ppp]

I dunno, one thing is for sure the US has some amazing submarine technology. What makes you say they can't be made?

[LunaSea]

Because the US submarine production calender is completely full and unable to scale up.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/aukus-congress-subcom...

Australia will also not have full control of their own submarines:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/austra...

[andy_ppp]

Impossible to scale up I’m not convinced by, military projects delayed? 100% certainty I’d say.

[amarcheschi]

US single handedly boosting European investment in European defense companies

[FirmwareBurner]

>Talk to any Canadian and tell me that trust in the US as an ally hasn't been irreparably damaged.

Firstly, I have no sympathy here. If you trust any foreign government that's not accountable to you to begin with, that's on you.

The upshot is that this serves as a good lesson and wake-up call for Canadians and for us in EU as well that we need to start pulling our weight in the world and looking out for our own interests instead of letting ourselves at the mercy of foreign powers.

People need to learn lessons the hard way on their own skin if they're too stupid to learn from past history, like how Czechoslovakia was fucked over by its allies in WW2 and gave to Hitler on a platter. Don't rely on supposed allies to fight your battles, look out for yourself. That's why I'm a big fan of the Swiss's neutrality system and France's post-WW2 nuclear deterrent program. A strong military is better than stronger allies that can change their mind.

And secondly, nothing is ever irreparably damaged. 80 years ago Japan and US were at war and for over 50 years they've been strong allies. Canada also invaded the US in 1814 and burned down the White House and yet they've been each other closest allies after that. Similarly, in 20 years Russia could be the west's best friend. So relationships between countries change all the time based on how the wind blows. Nothing ever lasts forever, only gullible fools with no understanding of history try to hang onto such idealistic beliefs.

[bryanlarsen]

The Swiss trust their neighbors in most things. They have extensive trading relationships with their neighbors, many treaties and relatively open borders. There military is structured under the assumption their neighbors won't invade.

[FirmwareBurner]

Sure, but that was only a personal opinion tangent and not the core of my argument which still stands. That's like the safari guide telling you to stay in the vehicle because the Bengali tigers outside will maul you and you go "Ackshually, those are Siberian Tigers, not Bengali." While you're technically correct, it doesn't change the point.

[bryanlarsen]

Trust isn't a binary. If everybody trusted all of their neighbors as much as South Korea trusts North Korea then the world economy would collapse and we'd likely have billions of deaths.

[FirmwareBurner]

It isn't binary but clever countries with a strong defense policy like the US and Switzerland also have insurance polices and backup plans for the case their allies turn against them since it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. Guess in which case Europe is a the moment?

[bryanlarsen]

So what should Canada do? Spend 100% of their GDP preparing for an American invasion that they'd probably still lose?

[sharemywin]

got 2 words nuclear proliferation.