[e40]

100% agree.

For the last few years, I've been saying the following regularly (to friends, family and coworkers): communication is the hardest thing humans will ever do. Period.

Going to the moon, launching rockets, building that amazing app... the hardest thing of all is communicating with other people to get it done.

As a founder (for 40+ years and counting) I manage a lot of different type of people and communication failures are the largest common thread.

Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second.

On the Marcan thing... I just want to say, control what you can and forget the rest (yes, this is direct from stoicism). Users boldly asking for features and not being grateful? Just ignore them. Getting your ego wrapped up in these requests (because that's what it is, even if he doesn't want to admit it), is folly.

I contributed to Marcan for more than a year. I was sad to see the way it ended. I wish him well.

[bayindirh]

> Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second.

That's very true. I recommend some people to read "The Four Agreements", because that thin book has real potential to improve people's lives through active and passive communication.

[roenxi]

Also worth being aware of Robert Kagen's adult development model [0] or something similar; that gives people a framework to go from "humans seem" to some actual percentages and capabilities.

Spoiler, but approximately 66% of the adult population make do without being able to maintain their own perspective independently of what their social circle tells them it is. I imagine that would make it extremely challenging to determine what someone else's perspective is. Especially if that perspective is being formed based on empiricism rather than social signalling.

And if we're making book recommendations, Non-Violent Communication is a gem of an idea.

[0] https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-th...

[jfim]

That's pretty fascinating, thanks for sharing it! It's a pretty compelling explanation as to why some people seem to be completely unable to logically explain their reasoning for certain beliefs and just fall back to "well it should be so because everybody says so."

[roenxi]

Ta. I learned about it from my favourite HN comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40856578) and have spent the last 6 months wondering why people don't bring it up more. It may just be a model but it has much explanatory power for why there seem to be so many "stupid" people around. I don't really have the word to describe them; people who are technically reasonable but not convinced by arguments or evidence.

[oldpersonintx]

> (yes, this is direct from stoicism)

stoics don't write multi-paragraph goodbye letters

[johnisgood]

What do you mean by this?

Marcus Aurelius wrote extensive personal reflections in his "Meditations". Seneca wrote detailed letters to friends and family discussing philosophy, life, and death. Epictetus discussed death extensively in his Discourses, but sure, they were philosophical teachings rather than personal goodbyes.

They focus on acceptance and equanimity rather than formal farewells.

That said, "control what you can and forget the rest" is indeed stoicism, albeit simplified.

[MyOutfitIsVague]

Stoicism is a school of philosophy. There are many many words over thousands of years discussing the practices and virtues.

[kennysoona]

You've stated a fact that has no bearing on the parents claim. Why?

[coldtea]

If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did.

Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question.

[kennysoona]

> If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did.

Eh, not really - "multi-paragraph goodbye letters" here refers to the overly dramatic fad that internet denizens sometimes engage in when they leave communities, and they tend to have a lot of whining.

Those types of goodbye letters are not the types of goodbye letters stoics would write.

> Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question.

If you were able to pick up so swiftly what the person I replied to was implying, you too should be able to have picked up that I replied because I disagreed with that implication.

[coldtea]

>Those types of goodbye letters are not the types of goodbye letters stoics would write.

The alpha male stoic carricutures, maybe. Real world stoics have not been above those.

>you too should be able to have picked up that I replied because I disagreed with that implication.

You could then just say that you disagree and state your case, without rudely asking why they posted it.

[otikik]

No, the other ones