[ypzhang2]

They most likely have dual trigger RSUs, so the second trigger is typically a liquidity event.

You are talking about single trigger RSUs with only time based vesting.

Also a 83b means you pay taxes at the time of issuance rather than vesting. If these folks received their shares post founding, that means that there might be substantial tax burden for them when they received these shares if a 83b was filed. This is why most folks do not opt for a 83b after a substantial FMV has been established for their shares. This is also why double trigger RSUs are popular, so you can actually execute sell-to-cover.

[ryanackley]

I can only speak from my experience but I've worked for two companies where the RSU's are structured as a pseudo-option.

Essentially, their price is set at FMV at the time of issuance. Since your net is zero at the time of issuance, you pay no taxes until there is a liquidity event and you can pay to cover.

Since this happened to me at two unrelated companies, I imagine it's a very common structure because it follows common sense and it works out great for everyone.

[FreakLegion]

It's not clear what you're describing, so hard to say whether it's common.

RSUs are stock. When you get them, you pay tax on their value at income rates. To deal with this you can delay actually getting the RSUs (e.g. double-trigger vesting, common), or the company itself can provide liquidity for taxes (e.g. Carta's net settlement program, not common).

Either way, 83(b) elections don't apply. They do apply to RSAs and options with early exercise, so maybe you had one of those.

My experience here is as a founder who's spent entirely too many hours with lawyers trying to engineer the most employee-friendly stock plan possible.

[ryanackley]

It's very much a grey area where you can't apply set of hard rules because each corp will do it a little differently. This is why OP needs to talk with a lawyer. I have four data points to your one over my career and I'm only counting the ones that ultimately paid out.

- Microsoft - straight straight stock award and options

- Atlassian - Pre-IPO straight stock options

- Company you never heard of 1 - RSU pseudo-options

- Company you never heard of 2 - RSU pseudo-options structured a little differently from company 1

[FreakLegion]

Repeat founder, double-digit data points.

Yes, companies can do arbitrarily weird things, like OpenAI's PPUs. No, these aren't common at startups, and there's no one way that beats all the others come tax time.

If you share the stock plan, or at least concrete details, we can get to the bottom of what you're describing. But understandably you aren't likely to do that.

[ryanackley]

My comments on my own experience were only relevant to my point of the OP should speak to a lawyer because every employee stock compensation plan is different. It feels like you are trying to discredit my personal experiences and I don't understand why. Do you not believe me or is your point that you know more about the topic than I do?

[FreakLegion]

Going back to the top, you wrote:

> Essentially, their price is set at FMV at the time of issuance. Since your net is zero at the time of issuance, you pay no taxes until there is a liquidity event and you can pay to cover.

I do believe the broad outcome you experienced, including having an employer file an 83(b) for you, which is rare but possible. I don't believe "RSU's [...] structured as a pseudo-option" is an accurate description of the mechanics involved. At a minimum, it's underspecified, and could lead someone else reading this to make a bad financial assumption down the road.

> is your point that you know more about the topic than I do?

I don't know, was that your point when you wrote "I have four data points to your one"? My only point is that that particular argument isn't a sound basis for dismissing the feedback you're getting, whether from me or from the others who've responded.