[KaiserPro]

Forigner here, one who's family has been shaped on both sides by the nazis and lived through either bombing, or were active members of the resistance in occupied europe.

That was a Hitlergruß, no ifs no buts. More over it wasn't just the once.

Does it make him a nazi? no.

But one has to question why the fuck he thought it was a good idea.

He's terminally online, he knows exactly what it is. He's seen the same memes as us, and knows exactly what that gesture means. So why do it?

That is the far more concerning question.

But thats irrelevant as he appears to be gaining absolute control over the executive.

[Yoric]

I think we're forgetting something.

As far as I understand, most of the leaders of the historical NSDAP (the Nazi party) / the Nazi regime were not Nazis themselves, insofar as they did not believe in whatever was written in Mein Kampf. Nazism was just a mean to grab and hold power. The true believers were basically victims of a con.

So... I don't care whether Elon Musk is actually a Nazi. I do believe that he is willing to use Nazism as a lever, which makes him much more dangerous.

[diggan]

Probably some of the Nazi leaders may have been opportunists to varying degrees, but to say that most of the leaders were not hardcore Nazis is not accurate. Out of the various biographies and books I've read, they're were all aligned about racial supremacy, antisemitism, and German expansionism, this is 100% crystal clear. Even private diaries from people like Goebbels that are now public, makes their commitment abundantly clear.

Another example is Albert Speer (whose biography I've also read), where he initially was an opportunists but eventually became active participants in furthering the goals and believing the "mission" of the Nazis, even though initially (and afterwards) wasn't as convinced (edit: by his own accounts, many historians disagree with this today).

Characterizing the leadership/inner-circle/leaders as merely power-seekers who didn't believe their own ideology minimizes their moral culpability and misrepresents the historical record.

[Yoric]

You may be right. I'll need to double-check.

[goatlover]

Likely trolling and pushing boundaries to see what he can get away with. Similar to Trump. They're grifters and like being the center of attention. I don't think they have real ideologies. Whatever works for them. Well, maybe Musk buys into techno feudalism.

[dennis_jeeves2]

>But one has to question why the fuck he thought it was a good idea.

Probably not a good idea publicly. I'd say he slipped if he did do it. I do find NS to be very funny because it annoys/offend some people, most comedians similarly will find it funny.

[KaiserPro]

> I'd say he slipped if he did do it

I mean yeah, but he did it more than once, and it wasn't like it was an odd sort of wave, it was a full on parade standard Hitlergruß (thumpy on the chest hand out at the ascribed hitler angle). Which he then repeated to the audience in the front and the people behind him.

Monty python use to do it all the time, as did a number of other comedies. but the important distinction is that comedians aren't in power.

Musk arguably has more power than the president. So him thinking that it can't harm to try the old nazi salute, with unprecedented power isn't a healthy thing for democracy, regardless of who you think should be in power. Do you think he's going to give up that power willingly?

[dennis_jeeves2]

I have to admit, if I had all the power in the world I'd be openly offending various groups. Although in bad taste, it serves as a test to weed out petty people. Further I'd be offering those groups a clean exit to from their own 'offenseless' society.

Now coming to the democracy thing - I'm not sure it's the best form of governance as is commonly understood, so I personally don't value it. I don't imply that the opposite of democracy is tyranny either. I suspect that groups exist that are outside of typical govts and personally I'd be a part of such group, than participate in a 'democracy' which caters to a relatively low IQ - the stuff that Monty Python highlights.

I would think that EM has already reached that stage of no wanting the approval of those easily offended people.

[KaiserPro]

> reached that stage of no wanting the approval of those easily offended people.

He craves approval, the people that he crave it from are just as easily offended as anyone else.

Can you imagine the death threats if he pulled out a pride flag, or said he loved his transgendered kid?

[dennis_jeeves2]

>> reached that stage of no wanting the approval of those easily offended people.

>He craves approval, the people that he crave it from are just as easily offended as anyone else.

I would not make that assumption unless I knew him personally.

[try_the_bass]

I mean, I don't know him personally, either, but I do think they're correct that he craves approval.

Hell, he tried to get the left's approval for years. However nothing he did was ever good enough to satisfy the loudest, most critical voices, which I think has contributed to his abandonment of the left as a whole.

It probably didn't help that he was outright snubbed by the previous administration numerous times. I think that blatant disapproval helped shape who he is today, too.

I'm mostly basing this on pragmatism, really. He wants to succeed, and if the left isn't enabling that, of course he'll try the right. They seem much more welcoming (ironic!), and much more supportive of his goals (also ironic, given Tesla's position opposing fossil fuels and climate change!)

[drawkward]

>I have to admit, if I had all the power in the world I'd be openly offending various groups. Although in bad taste, it serves as a test to weed out petty people.

In this scenario, it is the people offended by the Nazi salute, and not the person doing it for outrage bait who are petty?

Brother, I have been accused of a lack of self-awareness, but man this is next level! In your own scenario you have all the power in the world; you dont ever have to weed out anyone, by definition.