[moobsen]

This is hacker news. Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

If that surprises you, I recommend reading the hacker howto.

"Hackers are naturally anti-authoritarian. Anyone who can give you orders can stop you from solving whatever problem you're being fascinated by — and, given the way authoritarian minds work, will generally find some appallingly stupid reason to do so. So the authoritarian attitude has to be fought wherever you find it, lest it smother you and other hackers."

There is a difference between a hacker and a cracker, which might these days be called "tech-bro". Even if it might not be obvious to everyone.

https://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

[southernplaces7]

>This is hacker news. Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

Some of the people on this site maintain a strong anti-authoritarian, instinctive and philosophical hacker instinct, sure..

Many others however are just about as fully establishment, self-serving techno-elitists as you could want. One this site there's no shortage of such authoritarian types who happily defend all kinds of social control notions by default, while embracing a supposed need to monitor and herd "average" people for their own good.

The "Hacker" in Hacker News is more a cute marketing phrase than a real description of any such dominant ethos here.

Edit: And the post for this thread just got flagged. Amusing indeed.

[unsui]

> This is hacker news. Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

disagree. While hackers traditionally do lean anti-authoritarian, I am consistently disappointed by how many folks here generally side with CEOs and tech leadership that do, in fact, display authoritarian tendencies.

It is no coincidence that the "tech bros" are sinking democracy full steam ahead, given how Thiel and fiends find democracy incompatible with their vision for the world.

So, no, I wouldn't say that HN tends to lean anti-authoritarian. From my experience on this site, I would say the opposite.

[intended]

Give people a minute. It takes a while for the old OS to boot up and finish its systems check.

I found this to be a great video that has acted as a reminder of what it used to be. https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-bioterrorism-will-save-your-life...

People need exemplars, stories, ideas move their changes along.

[throwaways01342]

Unfortunately, the hacker culture of today is different than 20 years ago. It has become much more mainstream and inclined to hack inside the rules (social or legal)

They still exist, both young and old, but is a minority. The flagging of this article is a proof of that.

I understand keeping flamewars out of HN is important, but this discussion has been surprisingly calm. I hoped that it was enough to pass the filter

[ekianjo]

> Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

Except in (certain) cases where they find it very easy to accept if it is in line with their beliefs.

The true defenders are the ones who stand for the freedoms of those who have different opinions. This is a very small minority, everywhere.

[NathanKP]

100%. Hacking is fundamentally anti-authoritarian, and starting your own business and becoming an entrepreneur instead of a wage slave is also fundamentally anti-authoritarian.

However, I wouldn't go so far to disparage messing with the political system as "cracking". Hackers often try to break systems that are stagnant, and get those systems changed so that they come out stronger on the other side. And there's nothing more stagnant than modern politics. Ultimately it's a question of whether the people "hacking" the political system are "black hat" or "white hat".

I know what color hat Musk has chosen to represent himself, though.

[Trasmatta]

> This is hacker news. Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

Counterpoint: I've seen many posters here that are highly supportive of Trump and Elon. Not to mention all of the "hackers" enlisted in the DOGE army.

[jazzyjackson]

When people bandied about "hacking the planet" I have to wonder what they were picturing if not subverting bureaucracies to accelerate technocratic progress

[Trasmatta]

The hacker ethos was never about installing an autocratic state

[tbrownaw]

> Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

The BOFH was plenty authoritarian, and was celebrated for it.

[cogman10]

HN, IMO, tends to lean libertarian which if strictly followed is anti-authoritarian. Fascism and authoritarianism are things that anyone who believes in "freedom" should oppose right or left of the political spectrum.

I may not have the power to change things directly, I'm definitely watching what politicians and companies are lining up to lick boots. The boot lickers have not just been Republicans unfortunately.

[Fnoord]

Libertarianism leads to lack of checks and balances regarding Popper's paradox. It is a key component for authoritarianism to breed, via accelerationism.

[cogman10]

Not in all libertarian philosophies.

Most that I'm aware of take a dim view on government police forces but don't really take a dim view on enforcement apparatuses against the government. An authoritarian regime needs a strong police force to properly function.

For example, I don't think I've ever seen a Libertarian complain about the inspectors general (except maybe for strict anarchists).

[Fnoord]

Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism is just pretty much interchangeable, for the reason below.

The keyword here is 'leads'. The libertarian's lack of government leads to a criminal enterprise, ie. a dog eat dog society.

As for small police force, what if police is outsourced to businesses? E.g. PIs, using AI.

If you still have military (and in this case, you do), you can just declare martial law, and use your military.

[insane_dreamer]

> Hackers generally do not like authoritarianism.

that was true of "hackers" (who in "old times" might be more likely to associate with anarchism), but not true of "tech bros" (who seem much more concerned with how much money they have than how much they're hacking), and I think HN reflects more of the latter than the former, though of course a wide spectrum with lots of people that fit neither category

[intended]

Yeah, money was a great second love. But being reminded of the OG is part of everyone’s personal journey. What people remember and choose is theirs in the end.

[goodpoint]

"hacker" news has very little to do with hackers.

[mmastrac]

Ironically ESR seems to be siding with the authoritarians, though that was never really going to be a surprise for a lot of people.

He stopped echoing the hacker ethos in the 2000s, IMO.

One quote from him in the last week on Twitter (I was curious):

> We (the majority that voted for Donald Trump, and many others) are now past caring about accusations of racism. Even when they're true.

From a few days back, in re: dismantling of the gov't:

> Wrong. I voted for this, and more. Not thinking I would actually get it, mind you.

ESR is not a hacker, just a run-of-the-mill libertarian.

[tomrod]

Sorry, who is ESR?

[mmastrac]

catb.org, jargon file, etc.

[tomrod]

My hacker roots come from a different line. Will look it up. Thanks for the pointer.

Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond ESR

[anonfordays]

>ESR is not a hacker, just a run-of-the-mill libertarian.

You may dislike esr's comments or find him appalling, but he is most definitely, by definition, a hacker.

[snickerbockers]

>Ironically ESR seems to be siding with the authoritarians, though that was never really going to be a surprise for a lot of people.

yeaaaah, i can vaguely recall off the top of my head some quote from ESR about young black men being a mortal threat to everybody around then, and another incident where ESR was advocating the nuclear genocide of the entire islamic world as retribution for 9/11. The only reason I might be surprised to find out he's a trumpster is that Trump seems too moderate for him.

>ESR is not a hacker, just a run-of-the-mill libertarian.

c'mon man don't do the libertarians like that, they have some dumb ideas i disagree with about voluntary non-association but that's not because they're racist, it's just that they don't like the principal of the government forcing them to do things that they would probably be willing to do anyways.