[bdunks]

I was in Mexico City two weeks ago and a few uber drivers were driving BYD Dolphins. I was impressed. At a $14k price point, I can’t imagine better value for money. I got sucked into research and there are no near term plans for expanding to the US market. It’s too bad. They’re expecting to sell 500,000 units in Mexico this year. With the current (lower) emissions standards, I’m optimistic such affordable EVs will make a big difference to air quality in the coming years.

[haunter]

>At a $14k price point

In China maybe where it's 100k RMB (~roughly $14k). Everywhere else it's the double or at least $25k. It's £26k ($32k) in the UK. It's €32k ($33k) in Germany

Even in Mexico it's $26k (535k pesos) not $14k https://www.autocosmos.com.mx/catalogo/vigente/byd/dolphin

[timv]

In Australia the entry level "Dolphin essential" is A$30k which is between US$18.5k and US$21k, depending on the (fairly volatile) exchange rates.

Still not US$14k, but not quite the $25k it is in other markets.

[senti_sentient]

He probably meant Seagull, which is also sold as Dolphin Mini in some countries.

[SapporoChris]

"The Seagull went on sale in Mexico as the Dolphin Mini in March 2024. It is available in two variants, dubbed the Dolphin Mini and Dolphin Mini Plus, which are equipped with a 30.88 kWh and 38.88 kWh battery respectively."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull

https://mexico.as.com/motor/byd-dolphin-mini-que-tiene-de-es...

[bdunks]

Thank you for the correction and clarification. I didn’t dig into country specific pricing before posting.

While still higher, I believe these are all very reasonable prices — perhaps just not as mind blowing. I’m optimistic for the future.

[michpoch]

> I believe these are all very reasonable prices

Sure, as reasonable as offers from Western manufacturers. You can get plenty of EVs for 30k USD.

[phs318u]

Not in Australia you don't. Outside of Chinese EVs, you won't find an EV here for under AUD$55K (last time I looked, which was about 6 months ago).

[hulitu]

> You can get plenty of EVs for 30k USD.

Yes. Dacia Sprint. Plenty of it.

[michpoch]

Dacia costs ~14k USD here (Switzerland).

[Gud]

Are they comparable to BYD Dolphin?

[michpoch]

The western ones are much better, e.g. VW ID3.

[tonyedgecombe]

Right now they have stronger service networks and better parts availability.

[wdb]

And in Singapore it’s US$120k. Not much more than Tesla or Mercedes etc

[throwaway2037]

I assume this is the "all-in" price, that includes Singapore's famously highly car registration tax? I found these levels here: https://onemotoring.lta.gov.sg/content/onemotoring/home/buyi...

[hhandoko]

Nope... US$120k is most likely the base price (car + taxes). The Certificate of Enrolment (CoE) is market rate, and right now it's an additional SG$85k to SG$111k depending on the vehicle category (on top of the base price).

https://www.motorist.sg/coe-results https://bydcars.sg/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/BYD-Pricelist-...

[goatsi]

I read that flyer as the price of the car plus COE. The "Excite Package" Dolphin lists "Guaranteed COE" for $165,888 Singapore dollars ($122,505 USD) all in.

>In Singapore, most people typically purchase new vehicles through dealers. Dealers will collect orders from customers and participate in the COE bidding on behalf of their customers.

>Supply and demand set the price for COE, which regulates demand. When COE prices are high, vehicle prices, as quoted by dealers, will have to increase, reducing demand. When COE prices are lower, dealers can afford to reduce prices if they want to, which will increase demand.

https://dollarsandsense.sg/guide-understanding-coe-bidding-s...

It looks like dealers handle getting the COE (which makes sense, since you couldn't drive the vehicle off the lot without one).

Subtract the $85,000 (SD) CAT A COE cost from the car price and it comes out to $80,000 (SD), or ~$60,000 USD.

[pfd1986]

Just did a quick check and it translates to $30K in Brazil as well

[kawera]

Entry level Dolphins cost $20.5k in Brazil (R$118k).

[haunter]

That's the Dolphin Mini, a totally different car

[testfrequency]

I was just about to comment that a friend of mine owns a BYD and I got to drive his while in Mexico. Can’t remember the model, but it’s a crossover style.

I was ready to hate on it, but for the price and quality inside at least, wild. It also drove like any other car in the low/mid range that I’ve owned, wheel felt confident and had some heft to it (my preference).

[rainsford]

I'll admit I don't quite understand how EV demand works in lower income countries like Mexico. One of the major limits I see in the US is that the main appeal of having an EV is reasonably good (i.e. level 2) charging at home, which isn't an available option for many people in the US who don't have private garages with good electrical service. I feel like this limitation would be even more widespread in a country like Mexico, but maybe that's either incorrect or the appeal of EVs outside of the US doesn't rely quite so much on charging at home.

[femto]

Having just bought an EV, the charging requirements seem to be exaggerated. I'm able to put a bit over 100km range into the car with an overnight charge (9 hours) from a standard power point that can deliver 2.4kW. I'm just using a portable 10A/240V plug-in charger: no fixed infrastructure.

My typical charging regime is: charge to 80%. Drive until the car has done 100km (down to ~50% capacity), then charge back up to 80%. If we go over 100km in a day the car drops below 50%. That can't be topped up in a single night, but it just means the charging accumulates over the next few nights until it's back to 80%. It works as long as the average is less than 100km per day and the peak is less than 300km per day.

Whilst it wouldn't do for a taxi, it's perfectly okay for the driving we do.

[jdeibele]

I have a Chevy Bolt EUV and charged it on an ordinary US 120V circuit. Because there was nothing else on the circuit, I could tell the Bolt to charge at 12A at home, otherwise it limits itself to 8A anywhere that's not-home. It seemed to be about 3 miles of range per hour at 12A, 2 mph at 8A.

It actually worked pretty well for me. There were a couple of times I ended up "fast" (the Bolt is slow at DC charging) charging but very few in more than a year. The garage didn't have 240V power and we knew we were moving.

At the new house, I have a 240V 60A hardwired circuit for the EV charger so I can charge much faster, probably 25 miles of range per hour, maybe more. I haven't used a fast charger in probably six months.

It is a shock seeing what cold temperatures do to range in the Bolt. We have an Equinox EV and it seems to do better plus it has a longer range to start with.

[nickpeterson]

The problem in the US is that outlets run at 120v and an overnight charge is closer to 30-40 miles of range assuming 12amp on a 15amp circuit.

In countries with most outlets at 220v it’s probably easier, plus usually less long distance driving than the US.

Obviously if you put a 240v, 50amp outlet in a garage you can ignore everything I just wrote.

[redserk]

I've been using a 120V outlet for a few years. I recoup about 50-60mi overnight without an issue. I figured I'd get around to installing a 240V outlet but it just hasn't been necessary.

[jfengel]

In the US our regular outlets are more like 1.5kW (110V 15A).

There are also 30A circuits, usually for a dryer or stove. An electrician can set it up for a car, but it's not as easy as running an extension cord to a regular outlet.

[m463]

and 50a circuits.

[zdragnar]

You won't find easy access to 240v in most US homes. They're usually put in for very specific appliances like electric laundry dryers or hot tubs. To get your level of charging, most people will need at least some electrical work done.

Your 100km limit is also less than my wife's round trip commute to work, nevermind adding in running errands after or any of the regular travel we do to visit family, though at least some of that would be easy with upgraded charging.

Edit: to be more specific, most US outlets top out at 1.5kw to be safe, though they can usually be temporarily pushed to 1.8 for things like an electric kettle.

[rsynnott]

That’s essentially _just_ a North America thing (and a couple of countries in South America), tho.

In most countries standard mains outlets are 220-240V, usually 10-15amp depending on country.

> Your 100km limit is also less than my wife's round trip commute to work, nevermind adding in running errands after or any of the regular travel we do to visit family

Even by US standards, that is somewhat unusually high.

[zdragnar]

Eh, the average US commute is 27 miles according to a recent WSJ article, though this is somewhat recent as it was a bit shorter before COVID.

With that said, ignoring 600 million people, including the single most car-centric cultures, seems a bit silly when talking about EV adoption challenges, no?

[heyjamesknight]

Unless your commute is long, charging overnight on a standard outlet is more than sufficient. We have two EVs—one for my daily ~50 mile round trip commute while the other stays in the neighborhood most the time—and we never have to charge outside the home.

[barbazoo]

Gotta take people’s commutes into account. Level 2 isn’t a necessity for many people especially in less car centric environments.

[torginus]

Solar is super cheap nowadays - you can have a complete 5kW solar install with an 5kWh battery for around $2000 + labor. I'd argue a similar proportion of people have their own houses.

Additionally, a level 2 charger is just a high amperage wall socket plus some safety equipment.

[hervature]

This is incredibly misleading. The average price per solar install is $3/W so your 5kWh is probably much closer to $15k. Additionally, "+ labor" is actually 66% of the price of solar in the USA (soft costs + balance of system). Could you do the labor yourself? Of course. Do you have the time and tools? Probably not. Is saying "$2000 + labor" false? Technically, no, functionally, yes. All numbers taken from [1]. These do not include batteries in the install.

[1] - https://www.solar.com/learn/solar-panel-cost/

[dalyons]

we're talking about mexico, not the weirdly over-inflated home solar price of the US. For eg australia is around ~ $1/w installed, and they have high labor costs. It doesnt have to be expensive, the US makes it so somehow.

[dalyons]

(I would genuinely like an explanation for why it’s so much more expensive in the US. Australia is not cheap for basically anything - high materials and labor cost comparatively. I don’t understand how solar in the US costs so much more. )

[rsynnott]

Since Trump’s first term, the US has had 25% tariffs on solar panels from China and a few other countries, which certainly wouldn’t be helping.

That said, the Australia price seems particularly cheap; is that before grants and things? In Ireland, say, it’s typically 1.5-2eur/W before grant (grant is .7eur/W up to 2kW, .2eur/W up to 4kW, capped at 1800).

[addicted]

Most other countries in the world also don’t tend to have the US’s extremely large distances either.

Things tend to be much closer than they are in the U.S.

[rsynnott]

Urban taxis often don’t actually drive all that far per day.

[boredatoms]

Is it possible to import them from Mexio to US as a used-car?

[beau_g]

Nope, there's a 25 year import rule on cars that aren't homologated for US market https://carbuzz.com/features/25-year-import-rule-everything-...

[bagels]

It's infinity years in California.

[gchamonlive]

Yeah... I'm sure it's just to protect the market from lack of parts, protect the user's privacy and prevent cars from randomly exploding in the streets. Makes total sense.

[rurban]

Makes no sense at all. BYD is THE dominant EV car manufacturer worldwide. https://www.statista.com/statistics/541390/global-sales-of-p...

Protectionism only

[gchamonlive]

That was a sarcastic comment. I think the sarcasm was not clear enough. Sorry about that.

[cpursley]

Only after 25 years.

[vitaflo]

They’re not coming to the US market because there’s a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Biden signed that last year.

[m463]

I thought lots of inexpensive cars have never made it into the US market because they didn't meet safety standards.

[rsynnott]

There’s a demand aspect; you generally have to produce a version per market. ~No EU-spec cars would be saleable in the US, as they wouldn’t meet safety standards (for instance, very different rules on lights) and vice versa. These standards can often seem trivial, but having two versions of a car is expensive. So “doesn’t meet safety standards” usually means “it is not worth anyone’s time to produce a local version, either for demand or tariff barrier reasons”.

[lesuorac]

Isn't 14k with a 100% tariff still way cheaper than a Tesla?

[zdragnar]

Nobody actually pays $14k but the Chinese themselves. It's usually in the equivalent of $25k to $30's.

Throw in the tariffs and what not, and you lose out to other low end EV models.

[TiredOfLife]

I thought that tariffs are bad and only punish americans, and anybody imposing them is an evil dictator or something like that.

[adrr]

US doesn't have a large demand for EVs so I doubt we'll see BYD in the US. They are building a factory in Mexico that is capable of 300,000 vehicles per year.

[slashdev]

Not sure where you get that info from.

Demand is also relative to price and US EVs are very expensive.

[adrr]

"“We’re not planning to come to the US,” Stella Li, executive vice president of BYD and CEO of BYD Americas, told Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “It’s an interesting market, but it is very complicated,” she added, citing growing political pushback on Chinese companies and the slowing rate of growth for EV adoption."

From the largest maker of BEVs.

[slashdev]

Fully-electric vehicles (BEVs) were 8.1% of all U.S. light vehicle sales in 2024. EV sales were up 15% year-over-year.

The CEO is worried about how hostile the U.S. market might be for Chinese companies, not about low demand.

[adrr]

China hit 50% of all new cars sold last summer. Mexico 8.2% of their cars were EVs last year and had 70% growth. US doesn't have an EV market, once the EV credits get pulled, bottom is going to fall out.

[slashdev]

In 2024, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) made up 25% of new car sales in China (to compare apples to apples.)

That's a lot more than the US, but that's not the point. 8% is plenty large enough to be sizable market.

EV credits going away will dampen that, but that will also be partly or even fully offset just by how fast that segment is growing.

[SequoiaHope]

“BYD doesn’t want to sell in the US” (I presume due to strong anti-China sentiment which would harm an industry that is closely regulated by the government) is very different from “the US doesn’t have a large market for EVs” especially when the EVs BYD makes are low cost. And with Musk close with the government, BYD would be unlikely to be treated well any time soon. It makes sense that the CEO says “it is very complicated” but that is not the same as “the market is small”.

[macintux]

That doesn't say that demand is low, but that adoption is slowing, which could reflect many factors, including high prices.

[adrr]

Are they high? Average price paid in 2024 for a new car was $50k. There are tons of EVs under that price from Tesla model 3/y, For Mach E,Hyundai Ionic, a bunch of KIA models, VW ID4 etc.

[drawkward]

Good job! You continue to fail to subtantiate your original claim (low US EV demand) very well!

A+ goalpost moving!

[slashdev]

The auto industry in general appears to be slowing world wide

[rsynnott]

In terms of percentage of sales, the US is one of the smaller markets: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales (see the breakdown under “ Share of new cars sold that are battery-electric and plug-in hybrid, 2010 to 2023”, particularly the battery-electric section)

Now, the US is a big market, but even so, particularly with the US’s tariff barriers and unique consumer preferences (the average car in the US is a lot _bigger_ than elsewhere, and cars made for other markets do not sell well; for instance see the leaf), you can see why car makers would prefer to focus on the EU and China.