[Prickle]

That's interesting.

Japanese discussions I have had, and articles in Japanese seem to say the opposite. That Japan needs to invest more; because many talented Japanese researchers are emigrating to the USA or China.

The main topic that comes up is that both China and the USA provide better wages, as well as greater funding for projects overall.

But I'm just a local, and certainly not a researcher. Thanks for your POV!

[rtpg]

Are talented Japanese researchers emigrating to China? Not that I don't think there's good work going on there, but my impression from the outside is it's extremely competitive.

I definitely knew a lot of people who end up heading over to the US though. Lot of people who come back because living in the US is miserable for a lot of em though! The salary gap is huge (especially with the exchange rate) but at the end of the day Tokyo in particular has a lot going for it.

I really like Japan uni's being fairly researched focused, though. It's to the point where universities with exchanges with Japanese universities were complaining because people in their home countries had credit requirements for Masters students but Japanese unis were like "I mean you're a Masters student, go do research and take a couple classes. But mainly do research". At least that's what I was told.

But at the end of the day research labs in Japan can't escape general work culture pressures of the country. A certain very famous prolific architect gets all his work done by farming it out to his masters students at the university. Professors in many labs basically only live and breath the academic life, so graduate students are just constantly being asked to be in "work mode". Just no break whatsoever. Hell of a lot of churning yet going nowhere. Might be the case in academia elsewhere but I feel like people at least get a bit more vacation time.

All of that, and you're paying for the privilege as a masters student!

[DanielHB]

Universities in Europe have bachelor's be 3 years and Universities in the US are 4 years but students need to take a lot of non-major-related classes. In Europe it is almost a given you will be doing a 2 year masters after bachelor if you are going to any STEM degree.

In Brazil bachelor is usually 4 years (sometimes 5) and it is hardcore STEM all the way through with higher workload than EU Unis per semester. Masters in Brazil are like you said, you might take ~12-16 credits over 2 years, you are actually expected to be doing research and writing your thesis the rest of the time. From what I talked with friends it is like that in India and China as well (maybe Japan too?).

I don't have a masters myself, but I hear masters in Brazil are pretty chill, while in the EU it can be quite demanding. In EU you need to write a thesis and handle the class workload that is not minimum like it is in Brazil during the masters. But Bachelor in Brazil is waaaay more intense and lasts longer too.

It is quite annoying when sending CVs in Europe people see I only have a bachelor and I think I don't know deeper Computer Science/Math concepts.

[physicsguy]

England and Netherlands are 3 years for a BSc but that’s not the case for all other European countries. Even in Scotland it’s 4 years for a BSc.

Even in the U.K. they realised 20 years ago that that wasn’t enough so they introduced ´integrated masters’ as a preparation for additional study, where you spend another year and come out with a single MSci or MEng degree instead of a BSc at the end of it.

[DanielHB]

In Sweden almost everyone I meet while working have a masters while in Brazil it is the opposite. Very few people go for masters in Brazil, the companies simply don't care about it at all so it is mostly just people who want to get PhDs afterwards.

Funny thing is, most people in Brazil who do Masters usually get an stipend too and it is much more chill than the bachelor. Yet most still go to private sector because the money is better.

In Sweden people actively look down on your CV if you only have a bachelor.

[rangestransform]

> I definitely knew a lot of people who end up heading over to the US though. Lot of people who come back because living in the US is miserable for a lot of em though!

As a country, Japan (probably) wants the opposite, where the talented spend their most productive years in Japan and the most negative-productive (elderly healthcare costs, pension, etc.) years elsewhere. I'm not denigrating the individuals though, ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.

[Danieru]

To be honest, those are all valid points which I think are true. I've never met an academic who thinks their country should reduce science funding. And the personal incentives do push researchers overseas for higher wages.

Personally though, I think how a country uses the money dominates over how much. Most countries have a pretty consistent level of funding. Sure some countries might double others, but overall funding tends to follow GDP. No country is spending 10%+ of GDP on research, nor do I think is that justifiable.

Thus the differences come from effectiveness of spend, not volume. Japan has an advantage here in the low English proficiency: you cannot be headhunted by the Americans if you cannot speak English. Thus when Japan does focus on specializations, as it did in the past with semiconductors, those researchers cannot be headhunted away.

[corimaith]

Probably to note that in Asia, professors are generally expected to retire at 60, with only very rare exceptions.