[homebrewer]

You forgot to add "IMHO". IDEA has fantastic UI, it's fully configurable and 100% usable through pre-assigned hotkeys. For example, fuzzy search is available everywhere, in every tool window, in the database window, in search results, etc. The same key combination (ctrl+alt+arrow up/down on my instance) can be used to jump between search results, symbol usages, TODOs, linter results, and so on. They thought through and implemented countless convenient features, most of which I will not be able to remember, but do use every day purely through muscle memory.

They're also now intent on destroying them in favor of the "new" primitive UI by trying to cater to new users (who are seemingly fine with never becoming power users). The good UI is still available through a plugin, but it's obvious it will be dropped in the next few years. I'm pretty sure they will lose the old guard like me right after that.

[johnisgood]

> They're also now intent on destroying them in favor of the "new" primitive UI by trying to cater to new users (who are seemingly fine with never becoming power users).

I am a power user of my tools. It is sad when a tool gets simplified and have configurations deleted, it is like getting rid of "Advanced" option, essentially.

[graypegg]

Genuine question, what are you missing from the old UI? I am still maybe not a “fan” of the new UI, but I’ve since gotten pretty proficient with it and I genuinely can’t think of anything that’s impeding me. I think the general information density dropped somewhat, but a lot of the old UI was noise. I don’t need a big file path taking up 60% of the top toolbar. Nor a default Jetbrains space logo just sitting there. Why do I need a disabled stop button when no task/debug job is running? The old VCS tools were quick to access but it was also just 3 arrows next to the word “GIT:”. That’s a bit clunky and hard to click isn’t it? And it’s not like I need to optimize milliseconds on “updating this branch”. It happens a lot but opening a menu is the same amount of effort while not requiring close hit targets. No matter your muscle memory, you’ll nudge 16px over every once in a while. (<shiftshift> pull <return> also being my preferred way to pull/any VCS action anyway, so the point is moot)

Maybe my one main complaint is the side panes. I still loathe the hieroglyphic buttons. I would love a return to the sensible vertical text labels… but even then I realize I never change the order of those panes, so it’s not like I’m ever unsure of which pane is which at this point.

It feels… perfectly cromulent. I don’t really care at this point, if it helps new folks use IDEA IDEs, cool. Doesn’t affect my life at all now. And that’s coming from someone that does actually use the useful features of an IDE, and has been for a long time.

[speleding]

I too missed the old VCS tools in the new UI. But it was 10 minutes work to get them back in the toolbar, along with a few other things I missed (and that setting syncs to my JetBrains account, so new installs get that same modification).

I get trying to be minimalist but the VCS icons are really useful because they also convey if something has not been pushed / pulled yet.

[phreack]

Honestly the hieroglyphic buttons are a deal breaker for me. It's just a cognitive load I can't overcome without frustration. The vertical labels were just perfect and Jetbrains actively ignores feedback on that. On a second place, not having bottom toolbars anymore is such a downgrade! I would use it to have a convenient console at hand constantly. I did use the Git buttons constantly, and now it's either hard or impossible to customize some buttons, plus they'll be hieroglyphical. And at the end, I just don't like how there's less information like where my file is located (as in, "which index.js was I looking at?"), visual separators marking button borders and tab borders are now gone, and so on.

Now, there's the classic plugin but it's got an expiration date. I also could get used to all of this, and I did, I migrated to VSCode. It has a surprising (yet hilariously complex) amount of theming options and I got the contrast to previous JB defaults. Because Jetbrains' communication has been just awful throughout this change these past couple of years, I just don't trust them anymore to not destroy my workflow on a whim, it's a portent of enshittification.

[graypegg]

The bottom toolbar... is something I didn't consider actually. Also agree with you on that. That removed a whole layout option. (Split bottom left/right, OR open a wide bottom pane. Now all panes need to be splits.)

[DecentShoes]

I despise the trend of removing text labels for icons. It's bad design, everyone knows it's bad design, Windows 11 is full of this mistake, but one company did it and I guess now everyone has to do it.

[tommica]

Yep, I'm glad for their "Classic UI" plugin - I really dislike working with the new one, it's too VSCody for my liking.

[solardev]

I mean, I did start the post with an "I think"... it's pretty clearly an opinion, no?

I also don't think that's some obscure hypothesis on my part. It was just the zeitgeist at the time Fleet first came out (https://developers.slashdot.org/story/21/12/04/1655249/jetbr...)... seemed obvious that it was to counter VSCode. Fleet's own homepage says "We envisioned Fleet as a coding tool with a clear minimalist design that doesn’t overwhelm and helps keep you focused."

I'm not trying to convince anyone that one look & feel is better than another, just point out that there IS a generational divide (my guess) or at least a divide (of SOME sort) between those who prefer dense UIs and those who prefer simpler ones. My younger coworkers especially seem to struggle with the full-blown IntelliJ – it's just a trend I noticed, not some deep scholarly analysis. It's part of a generational fashion trend towards more whitespace and less information density.

Jetbrains already risked quite a flame war when they launched the "simplified UI" for IntelliJ, to a very mixed love-it-or-hate-it reception. They realized they couldn't change the existing UI too much without alienating some % of their existing users. So Fleet was a way to instead make an alternative, sharing some of the same backend but with a different enough UI for those who want it.

I doubt it's ever going to replace the traditional IntelliJ UI, especially now that they're refocusing efforts on AI stuff instead of minimalist UIs.

[vr46]

I literally did not renew last month after twelve years of paying, and longer overall, and the UI was the last straw. I installed the "classic" UI plugin, but it's like you say, I know they're going to drop it. I figured that if I have to use a UI like their new one then I can use VSCode as well, there's no real reason to stay. The real cutting edge stuff is happening over at VSCode anyway. Plus Jetbrains never made a decent VCS interface and I can always use an older version with a permanent fallback licence.

[joseda-hg]

I don't know, being uber configurable isn't necessarily what you want when you're not familiar with a tool and you don't know yet what you need to configure or faff with

I've only recently started using JetBrains, so I'm only familiar with the new UI but I distinctly feel like I don't know what I'm missing on extra functions because I'm just not aware of it existing

[solardev]

> I've only recently started using JetBrains, so I'm only familiar with the new UI but I distinctly feel like I don't know what I'm missing on extra functions because I'm just not aware of it existing

Don't worry, I've been using it for 10+ years and I still feel that way every day :)

[DecentShoes]

You also didn't add "IMHO".

[coldtea]

>You forgot to add "IMHO"

But also objectively.

[nsonha]

VSCode can do all of that, and for most languages, VSCode's/OSS LSPs are often more performant/feature rich than whatever running inside IDea that takes tens of minutes to index a project in my computer.

Who should I take seriously now? The "power users" who claim that vim with lsp and terminal is the way, or the "power users" who claim that bloated UIs is the way?

As far as I am concerned, "power users" only really need the functionality to be there and accessible with a command palette, do away with "power users" panels and buttons please.

[indexedcosmoks]

>VSCode's/OSS LSPs are often more performant/feature rich than whatever running inside IDea that takes tens of minutes to index a project in my computer.

Typically if this happens I notice IDEA is indexing the entire dependency tree for something like node or python. It'll have an understanding of everything but is much slower to index and typically not needed. If you exclude node_modules you'll have very fast time once again