[msthrway8709]

Thirding this, group manager at Microsoft. Throwaway as I post regularly under my professional account.

VPs have been explicit, in writing, that we are shifting heads to lower cost geos.

Hiring has been largely halted in the US for the bulk of non-business-critical roles to shift PCNs overseas, and there have been multiple waves of US focused layoffs to motivate this further.

While offshoring has been a topic for the last 20+ years of my career, this time, since 2022 or so, feels different even vs. prior recessions, and I expect we'll see continuing erosion in the quality of engineering positions and careers.

[swimorsinka]

It’s hard to know if this most recent move will be more permanent. The irony with Amsterdam was that they had a hell of a time hiring. They had to import 80-90% of their labor from Eastern Europe or elsewhere and everyone had visa issues and would take 2-4 months to start. I also think the company will get a rude awakening in a few years when they realize they can’t just fire everyone or do layoffs like they were in the US.

[msthrway8709]

Some of the pessimism comes in that I've seen larger "centers of gravity" being built in these regions with full reporting chains vs. effectively being the offshore wing of another team, as well as commensurately higher levels of product ownership and growth or traction over the last few years.

Additionally, can obviously only speak for myself but I've tended to see more hiring in countries without the strong european worker protections (eastern Europe, Israel, india, asia)