[protocolture]

They arent meaningless, Tesla did some pretty cool shit. And then they shipped a very small quantity of cars that have poor maintenance and the kind of vendor lockin that we get shitty at John Deere for.

The issue isnt that Tesla did stuff. Its that its all historical stuff that doesnt justify its current market price.

If I was to invest in a car company I would want them shipping millions of cars, not a "net positive for humanity" and a couple hundred thousand janky cars.

[ghc]

> If I was to invest in a car company I would want them shipping millions of cars

Tesla shipped 1.2 million of the Model Y alone in 2023, making it the best selling car worldwide. They sell about half as many cars as Ford, at 9x the profit margin.

[protocolture]

Yep as the other commenter said, millions of janky cars.

Nissan sold 3.4 million cars in 2023.

Tesla sold 1.81 million that year.

China, who are the big fish in the EV pond, sold 30 million cars in 2023. 4.9 million went overseas.

The Chinese plan? Build your existing car for cheaper and with an EV option.

SAIC\GWM sold 4.6 million cars in 2023. And their EV Ute is shockingly awesome compared to the Cybertruck.

[scarface_74]

You realize that’s not the argument you think it is to justify Tesla’s market cap?

[ghc]

I was merely correcting someone who was wrong on the internet, because Tesla does not in fact ship "a couple hundred thousand janky cars", as OP claimed.

I wouldn't touch Tesla stock with a 10 foot pole.

[scarface_74]

They ship millions of janky cars.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-placed-bottom-consumer-repor...

> Consumer Reports‘ annual reliability rankings have been released, and with data from 24 brands and over 300,000 vehicles, Tesla fell near the bottom (19/24) along with Mercedes-Benz, Jeep, Volkswagen, GMC, and Chevrolet. Electric vehicles overall also placed poorly, being the second least reliable category of vehicles. Hybrids/plugin hybrids, especially those from Toyota, were found to be the most reliable.

Also the idea of the “best selling car” is meaningless. That’s like when Apple has “the best selling phone” when other manufacturers like Samsung sell a dozen types of phones.

[ben_w]

I remember when the original iMac was the best selling model of computer among all brands. A title Apple retained until, IIRC, they offered multiple colour options.

MacOS was still something like 5% or so of the overall market.

[scarface_74]

Funny aside, the narrative is usually that Apple was struggling between the time Jobs left and he returned between 1984 and 1997. The truth is that their market cap was larger than Microsoft’s through 1992-93 and they were the largest or second largest computer seller around 1991-94. The bottom didn’t fall out until Windows 95 and Apple manufacturing low end computers no one wanted.

[slg]

It is probably telling that multiple people here think that the only relevant framing of "impressive" is as an investment. And that is only made stranger by the fact that Tesla has been objectively a hugely successful investment in terms of performance, no matter how many people dislike their cars, Musk, and the company's fundamentals or they think there is some hypothetical crash that is right around the corner.

And to make it explicit, I dislike Musk as much as the next guy and I absolutely would not invest in Tesla at this point, but we shouldn't let that bias our view of history.

[protocolture]

I know hundreds of people are trying to codify musks legacy at this point.

>Tesla has been objectively a hugely successful investment in terms of performance

But the only thing he cant dance out of is that he is an absolutely impressive showman. I mean even in the emails OpenAI released, he very talked his way into a controlling interest in OpenAI.

I just feel like, heaps of Tesla investors are going to be left holding the bags when the shine wears off.

That said, if I saw a story about Musk wising up a little bit and hiring someone to rejuvenate his PR I would probably spread some money amongst all of his businesses.