[musikele]

Let's remove Musk from the equation, because you can like or (most probably) hate him, but I own a Tesla and I have the opposite experience. Everything worked out of the box. Just one piece of hardware started to fail (the charger plug making some noise) and they changed it in warranty.

First: has the author tried a tesla before buying one? I'd never buy a car without trying it. Because comparing it to a Clio just because the Clio worked, well, seems a bit off. a Clio is a car, a fully functional Tesla is a gian iPad with wheels. There's a huge difference.

Second: when you buy a car, do you ask yourself, how will I fix it in case anything goes wrong? Buying a car in a country where there's no service is a huge no-no.

Third: No doubt that a car with all these defects _must_ be changed, or fixed immediately at no cost of transportation, or offered a compensation to get it back. I think the owner should _also_ contact a lawyer and try to get a refund. I'd not accept this kind of treatment.

[wesselbindt]

Agreed, the quality of the product should speak for itself. We've got people saying they're unreliable, and we've got people saying they're reliable, and that's true for literally every car manufacturer on the planet, so this doesn't tell us much. Anecdotal stuff aside, there's studies done on these things, thankfully, and Tesla consistently ranks poorly. See for example this one (this is just the first one that popped up when I googled "car reliability study", it's probably better if you find your own sources):

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s...

[mschild]

Adding another source: TÜV Report 2025 (in German) In Germany you have to get your car checked every 24 months for its road worthiness (think general doctor checkup but for your car). If it fails, you are not allowed to use it until it's fixed.

At the first general inspection after purchase 2-3 years out, 14.2% of all checked Tesla Model 3s had issues. Comparing that to other models that are on record in sufficient numbers, its a high rate of failure. VW ID.3, for example, had 5%.

https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2025/

[seanmcdirmid]

It seems that they fail the TUV for two reasons: bad suspensions and rusted brakes. The first one is on Tesla, but the second one has to do with regenerative braking vs real braking. You are supposed to slam your brakes one or two times a year so they don't get rusty, but a lot of users aren't following this and can go a long time without using their brakes because regen braking is so convenient.

[kalleboo]

PHEVs will run their gas engines after they have not been used in a while in order to keep the gas in them from going stale, it seems odd that the braking system on EVs doesn't do the same for the brakes

[seanmcdirmid]

It makes total sense: consumers don't like it when EVs automatically slam on the brakes to get rid of rust :).

Unfortunately, you can't generate enough friction to do this without the car moving, which is why it has to be done manually.

[Sammi]

The car doesn't have to SLAM the brakes. It just has to use them a bit like a regular car.

[starbugs]

> https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2025/

This is about what cars made it through the German TÜV. Not about reliability.

[wesselbindt]

To me it seems like a perfectly sound proxy measure of reliability. Why do you believe otherwise?

[dzhiurgis]

It's not. It assesses road-worthiness (aka safety), not reliability.

That article is often quoted in sensationalist media to smear Tesla. Look for actual mileage data and they are one of the, if not THE most reliable vehicle.

[starbugs]

Have you ever brought a car through the German TÜV?

[bayindirh]

Our car inspections are handled by German TÜV, and they do not inspect superficially. If, ~14% of a single brand of car which is ridden with LEDs (which should live forever when compared to halogens), advanced drive systems and other stuff are failing, and has to be re-inspected because of they can't meet the standards, that's pretty bad to be honest.

Failing TÜV means your safety critical systems have problems. This means brakes, suspensions, lighting (front and rear), screen wipers, etc.

So they check for pretty basic, but crucial stuff, and they're tested in a pretty detailed way (brake fade, stopping power, etc.). If your car is failing in just two years in these areas, you're not reliable, and your car will not age well, period.

My 25 year old car aces the test all the time, and the biggest complaint I got on my report is "Your wipers leave streaks, LOL!".

[wesselbindt]

I haven't. Could we fast forward to the part where you explain why you think it's not a good proxy measure?

[brandonagr2]

And yet Tesla has industry leading brand loyalty, what do you think is a better predictor, an opaque number computed by Consumer Reports from an unknown formula that combines feedback about non reliability items from users who bother to respond to consumer reports questions, or what 87% of consumers decide after experiencing a Tesla?

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-leads-with-unmatched-...

[wesselbindt]

The consumer report one. Also I feel like the source you link might be a teeny tiny bit biased.

[manmal]

Is this still true? Recent numbers from EU countries didn’t look good for Tesla. Only 11% of Swedes approve of Tesla now.

[sshine]

Same experience with my 2022 Model Y:

Have yet not had a single problem for two years.

Surely the problem lies in a high variance in the production of later models.

Like when you visit a stellar restaurant and come back years later to realize the magic sauce was a chef who left.

Also, yes, it sounds risky to buy a car without being able to drive it back when it immediately breaks. I can also see myself as a victim of that because of experiences like yours and mine: Teslas are the most purchased EVs, they're everywhere, surely you'd know if their reputation is tarnished for other reasons than the mascot being unpopular.

[theshrike79]

There's a trick in the EU.

If you buy the special red colour Y, it'll be German made. The other colours can come from China or US.

[aeyes]

I doubt that they are any better because most of the issues are caused by poor design.

[theshrike79]

They do have less panel gaps and other minor flaws, because the people putting them together in Germany actually care (and have unions and proper working hours so they're not exhausted).

[usr1106]

I am not sure how much unions are present in German Tesla factories. They are certainly very present in every other German car factory. Tesla does not accept unions. In Sweden, which is unionized to a higher degree than Germany, Tesla's service (no factory there) is in continuous labor conflict with Tesla who thinks they can act as irresponsibly as their owner.

[ivan_gammel]

IG Metall is there (at least 10% of total staff) and of course there's a workers council, where they have seats.

[dzhiurgis]

Panel gaps on most utilitarian family car mean near 0, esp. around reliability.

[manmal]

It’s a good proxy for care taken and fs given during production.

[sshine]

I also believe the amount of panel gaps varies a lot per factory.

[theshrike79]

Anecdotal evidence says that there is less variance in the German made ones.

The others are a lottery. You might get a perfect one or you might get one where the doors barely close

[penjelly]

it's a known problem with 2024 models, the article points to that. So while tesla may be aware of it, the public unconscious might not be (like the author wasn't), as its a new-ish, and frankly absurd problem to have.

[aredox]

...Is this the new "works on my machine"?

[sshine]

Not exactly my point.

I meant to say: I think the quality varies both per factory and over time.

There's a lot of complexity in industrial production. From the outside it looks like there's only the classic and the revamped design., but I've heard that the internal components are often far from the same.

[halifaxbeard]

"first gen" Model 3s didn't have an emergency rear door release for when the electrical one failed. they've since added that to more recent generations.

but- a car company that doesn't see the need to have emergency rear door releases has systemic issues. someone, anyone involved in approving that design could have said "no. i will not sign off on this", but they didn't.

it makes me wonder what other corners they cut, and whether those cut corners could kill a driver or passenger- because they're not going to cut corners on anything that would be immediately apparent in daily use: it would be detrimental to sales.

[manmal]

One corner they are cutting is replacing radar with the camera. IMO that’s ridiculous, but it’s certainly made a few million extra.

[simondotau]

Removing the ultrasonic parking sensors was a downgrade, but removing the radar wasn't. The vision stack was consistently superior to the radar at the time they stopped including them; today it's leagues ahead. Even if you have an older Tesla with a radar sensor, it's been disabled in software because the camera-derived data is so much better.

The scary thing about radar is how terrible the raw data is, and how utterly compromised the filtered data is. Stationary objects have to get substantially filtered out when driving at high speeds, otherwise false positives would be unacceptably common. This affects all brands of car with radar.

This shouldn't be surprising. Subaru managed to jank together Eyesight using a couple of cameras and an in-house team, and they were able to make it outperform radar in most respects. Unfortunately they didn't think to make it self-calibrating, so it requires a trip to the dealership any time you replace the windscreen.

[stevage]

>Let's remove Musk from the equation, because you can like or (most probably) hate him

OP doesn't make any implication about Musk at all, his name is only mentioned in passing.

>I own a Tesla and I have the opposite experience.

This is not a useful contribution.

Obviously there are many satisfied Tesla customers. No one doubts this.

The point of an article like this is to bring to light just how bad a Tesla experience can be. Not a tiny bit bad, but really miserable and expensive.

[brandonagr2]

You are replying to an anecdotal blog post to say that a comment that is just an anecdote is not a useful contribution?

You think it's useful to have a blog post to reveal the shocking truth that mass manufactured products aren't 100% reliable? A lemon could be produced by any auto manufacturer and the customer could have the same experience

[stevage]

TFA was a detailed explanation of a specific and complex failure. The comment was essentially "works for me", which, compared to that, was not useful.

[fouc]

OP did mention Musk in the last paragraph of the blog post.

[gcanyon]

> but I own a Tesla and I have the opposite experience. Everything worked out of the box.

To paraphrase Chris Rock: should we give Tesla a cookie? "Everything worked out of the box" is what's supposed to happen.

[ryandrake]

Seriously. "Everything Works out of the box" is now the bar for high quality??

[precommunicator]

> Second: when you buy a car, do you ask yourself, how will I fix it in case anything goes wrong? Buying a car in a country where there's no service is a huge no-no.

From middle of Slovakia to Budapest, Hungary is as far as Houston to Austin drive. No border or customs controls. Vehicle insurance issued in one, is valid in both. You only have to spend few euros to buy a vignette (road toll). I don't see your point.

[darkerside]

So the nearest repair center takes a full day instead of a quick drop off on the way to work?

[precommunicator]

Well, that's a valid point, but if you look at e.g. Poland, even that there are three repair centers there, there are places in there that are much (2x) further away from a service center than the drive from Slovakia to Budapest.

One thing I don't understand is why the author doesn't just use the legal provisions of statutory warranty. Any cost of delivering the faulty items to the seller are on the seller, not the buyer, in Europe in general.

[vel0city]

> From middle of Slovakia to Budapest, Hungary is as far as Houston to Austin drive

I still wouldn't want to own a car where the nearest service center is a Houston-Austin distance.

[adverbly]

OP was not claiming that all cars they produce are lemons. They were claiming that the customer service is terrible if you get one that is.

> I have the opposite experience. Everything worked out of the box.

You did not have the opposite experience. You had no experience because nothing on your vehicle went seriously wrong.

I suspect the customer service might vary significantly across countries, but I can't speak to that myself.

[EdwardDiego]

The Musk aspect is pertinent in the respect that he's mythologised for his innovation in Tesla and SpaceX while his detractors state that he merely bought into innovative companies, and they had to actively manage him to minimise his interference.

So in one view, he is indeed the guru of legend, and is responsible for the successes of Tesla and SpaceX, so a good candidate to refactor the federal government.

However, if he's responsible for their success, he's responsible for their failure. And this is a massive failure in manufacturing, in quality control, in after-sales service, and in just plain ol customer service.

But, if he's just a canny investor and his best companies succeed by insulating the company from him, then why the fuck is he touching the federal govt systems?

As for "buying a car in a country with no service" - the parts shortage looks to be global, so local market wouldn't help that.

[iamsaitam]

"has the author tried a tesla before buying one? I'd never buy a car without trying it" This reads like gaslighting, trying out a car that works and getting one that doesn't wouldn't have changed their outcome.

[buzzardbait]

I too have the opposite experience. I've had my late 2022 Tesla Model Y and I like it just as much as I did on day one. In fact I like it more now, since the car has received several new, big features after lots of software updates.

I live within 15 miles of two Tesla centres, and so far I've only had to use them once for a minor sensor issue, which was serviced at my property at no cost to me. If I didn't have any Tesla centres within a couple hours' drive I probably wouldn't have bought the car.