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by sandermvanvliet 488 days ago
What hurts adoption here in NL from what I hear (from installers so grain of salt etc etc) is that there aren’t enough people to do installs and then later maintenance.

Having looked at getting a heat pump set up in our house (built in 1902) is that even with the extra insulation we put in, the energy needs of a heat pump are huge which means more electricity is needed and what with congestion happening locally is getting to be a problem to supply all houses with enough oomph to run heat pumps, electric stoves and charging EV’s.

Even with people having solar installations this remains a problem because we’ve had almost three consecutive weeks with heavy cloud cover and fog as well as hardly any wind. So renewable power generation was down across the board.

Fact of the matter is, we adopted many energy hungry solutions without providing the necessary capacity up front.

I worked at a startup (Jedlix) where we built a platform to optimise EV charging specifically to deal with these problems (demand shifting) but there are so many hurdles to get this rolled out at a large enough scale to matter.

Car OEMs don’t provide the necessary APIs, (local)grid companies won’t provide usage data necessary to steer on so billing/compensation becomes impossible removing the incentive for consumers.

It seems so obvious that this would solve a real problem but even though the technology exists it’s not going anywhere. Maddening

4 comments

Also in NL and I work for a heat pump company - I don't know the specifics but for as long as I've worked here we've never not been hiring heat pump techs. (https://quatt.recruitee.com/)

I actually am hoping that better grid coördination could help a lot with the problem you describe, there's a few companies in the space but I can't think of big ones in NL. In the UK you have Octopus Energy which has effectively made a (virtual) power plant by managing individual assets.

Hey to all you NL people (we're in Den Haag) - I've been researching solar water heaters and they look really promising? I've read they even work in winter. Is that wishful thinking in a country like NL?
They work in winter provided there is enough sun.

If there’s no sun you’re looking at a different energy source which typically means electricity so you’re back to the demand problem when the weather is poor regarding renewable power.

I can't really comment except that when I asked our installers about it they had the perception that solar water heating was "an 80's and 90's thing". I don't know much about it beyond that.

I guess you could look up the insolation values and do the math on how much water you use and how hot it needs to be.

Jedlix had been acquired by Octopus in fact and specifically for the virtual power plant tech + EV integration.

What’s more challenging is that when it comes to EV charging in cities not a lot of people actually have their own charging station and need to use public ones. That means they’re in use all the time and “throttling” them causes availability problems.

One of the challenges would be to get people to charge their cars during the day when there usually is a power surplus (especially with solar when the weather is decent) but that’s a behavioural change that takes time.

Another problem in a densely populated country like the Netherlands is noise pollution by heat pumps. One of my friends has been in a conflict with his neighbour over just that which has cost a lot of time and money and probably can not really be solved entirely as the law is written, the distances between houses and the noise signatures of heat pumps and whatever sound-dampening enclosure they are stuffed in don't meet. This is not a problem where I live (Sweden) since we have way more space and build less densely than in the Netherlands.
This definitely also is a problem for the reasons you point out: density.

Have heard a few stories about it and it’s also a quite common topic in HOA meetings when someone wants to place an aircon unit.

Is air-con just that rare? A heat-pump isn’t all that much complicated than a ducted air-con. Here in the US, most HVAC service companies can/will service all types (pure AC, heat pumps, various furnaces, etc).
Mean daily maximum in July and August in Utrecht is 23C/73F (compare to 30C/85F in Chicago and NYC). The Netherlands is further north and a lot more moderated by ocean temperatures - it's kind of like SF in that regard except the entire country has a similar climate so AC is not a cultural expectation.
> Mean daily maximum in July and August in Utrecht is 23C/73F […]

Which is why heat waves/domes can be so lethal in Europe: people/infrastructure are not prepared for them.

* https://climate.copernicus.eu/heatwaves-brief-introduction

Same problem in Vancouver, Canada: it's a Marine climate, so when heat hits, folks aren't prepared for it.

In the UK at least, domestic air conditioning is extremely rare. Less than 5% of homes (I'm surprised it's even that high, although I am up North).
Oh wow, that’s lower than I would have expected. Totally makes sense in the north and Scotland.

How are most homes in England heated? Gas furnace + radiators?

Yup. Gas boiler central heating with radiators.
Air con is fairly rare here in NL although you do see more units popping up so it may be getting more popular.
These conditions are pretty common too (winter anticyclone).