[epistasis]

Imagine a grocery store that is within a short walking distance, such that you don't need to haul a weeks worth of groceries but can get fresh food every single day.

US supermarkets are massive, take forever to buy small amounts of groceries, and even the walk to and from the car is long.

A better world is possible! (If better grocery stores constitute a "better world")

[bluefirebrand]

> you don't need to haul a weeks worth of groceries but can get fresh food every single day

I lived that life in my 20s

Turns out I don't actually want to go to the grocery store every day. I want to go once a week and stock up, which I can do thanks to inventions like the refrigerator and the automobile

[lurking_swe]

no judgment on you in particular, but i’m not a fan of this thought process. I believe it’s a major cause for why americans (statistically) are so obese. and i say this as an american that lives in a city but has family in the suburbs.

running errands with your own two feet every day by walking, cycling, etc keeps people healthy and lean. this country has a major car problem. it’s sad.

of course one can go to the gym to stay lean and healthy, but that’s even more time consuming than stopping by the store for 5 minutes on the way home, and it requires extreme motivation. Hardly an improvement i’d say.

[bluefirebrand]

> running errands with your own two feet every day by walking, cycling, etc keeps people healthy and lean. this country has a major car problem

I did live this exact lifestyle in my 20s. I was definitely more active but my diet was way worse. I was closer to a lot of restaurants, and I was closer to a lot of bakeries and convenience stores and such as well.

A healthy lifestyle also requires a healthy diet and city living gave me far too much easy access to snacks and junk food. A lot of "it's only 5 minutes to go buy a snack". Daily stops for coffee that often included a pasty

Yeah, the walkable city does mean people are more active

It doesn't necessarily mean they are much more healthy. It still requires other forms of self control (which I admit, I struggled with)

[lurking_swe]

thanks for the thoughtful reply. :)

I agree, it’s not a magic fix for all issues! But it does address one major component, the physical activity part. The other is diet, which is a separate issue of course.

[imp0cat]

    one can go to the gym

And by that you mean drive to the gym, right? ;)

[globular-toast]

I don't believe it. If you lived right next door to the grocery shop would you still only go once a week and stock up?

Nobody wants less flexibility, rigid plans and higher maintenance costs. I think what you really want is a big house with lots of space away from other people and since you can't have your cake and eat it too you've sacrificed everything else.

[bluefirebrand]

You got me

I actually did live in an apartment a block away from a grocery store and yes, you're right. I would not trade my current house for having a grocery store that close

Because living in apartments sucks

But even if I did live in my current house with a grocery store right next door, I still would prefer to go as few times a week as possible. Planning ahead and limiting how often I am at stores helps me tremendously with sticking to a budget, which is also something I place a lot of value on

When I lived close to a grocery store not only did I spend more because the prices were higher, I also made more frequent trips for things on a whim, like snacks and treats. It was a much more expensive lifestyle

Maybe other people don't have that same struggle with convenience, but I do. By making the barrier higher, my life is more affordable and I eat less junk food for sure

This is all just my experience though

[globular-toast]

> Because living in apartments sucks

This depends on a) what you want, and b) the apartment. If you want a garden, then an apartment is a non-starter, obviously. Also if you care about what the exterior of the building looks like that you'll want a house. But other than it doesn't make much difference.

The main difference for me is insulation from your neighbours. I've lived in good apartments and bad ones. The best ones you simply forget that you even have neighbours. The worst ones you can't forget because you can hear their conversations and them locking doors etc. The trouble is it's hard to tell what it's going to be like before you move in and this isn't the kind of thing that has standards or that anyone seems to think about. So for someone sensitive to noise, but also likes to make a lot of noise (I'm a musician), I'm resigned to living in a house too. But I'm not sure it has to be this way.

[epistasis]

Well good news, nothing is stoping you from bringing home a full cartful of groceries that walking distance either. You just have more options.

Now, if you are really attached to your car and are only open to using your car for groceries, stay in suburbia, it's oversupplied through centralized planning and not at risk of going anywhere!

[bluefirebrand]

> Well good news, nothing is stoping you from bringing home a full cartful of groceries that walking distance either

Dunno about you but I only have two hands and can only carry so much at one time

I could have bought and brought a wagon or something I suppose, but that presents its own problems.

Where do I store the wagon in my tiny apartment?

What do I do with it when I'm actually in the store shopping, to make sure no one steals it while I'm in the store? I can't bring it into the store, it's too bulky for narrow urban grocery store aisles

How do I get my wagon full of groceries to my apartment, with no elevator?

Actually how do I get my empty wagon up to my apartment even, it's not going to manage narrow stairwells very easily even empty. So even if I leave it at the bottom and carry my groceries up by hand, I still have to get the wagon itself upstairs somehow

And then I also own a wagon that takes up my limited apartment space, which I only use to get groceries and provides no other utility for my life.

Unlike a car which I use all the time and only one of those uses is getting groceries

[ergl]

Have you never heard of a shopping caddy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_caddy

They're incredibly popular here, and yes, all supermarkets will have a lock stand near the checkout area so you can leave them there and easily reach for them as you're bagging your groceries. They're also foldable and/or small enough to fit in almost any closet.

[bluefirebrand]

Those little things would definitely not carry a weeks worth of groceries. They barely look like they carry more than I could by hand

Never seen a grocery store with a lock stand for these things either

[ergl]

They can hold a surprisingly big amount of cargo if you pack things right. Here in Spain they're definitely used for weekly hauls of groceries, although it might be pushing it if have more than two kids.