[inetknght]

> On the other hand, without Cloudflare I'd be seeing thousands of junk requests and hacking attempts everyday, people attempting credit card fraud, etc.

Yup!

> I honestly don't know what the solution is.

Force law enforcement to enforce the laws.

Or else, block the countries that don't combat fraud. That means... China? Hey isn't there a "trade war" being "started"? It sure would be fortunate if China (and certain other fraud-friendly countries around Asia/Pacific) were blocked from the rest of the Internet until/unless they provide enforcement and/or compensation their fraudulent use of technology.

[marginalia_nu]

A lot of this traffic is bouncing all over the world before it reaches your server. Almost always via at least one botnet. Finding the source of the traffic is pretty hopeless.

[patrick451]

When the government actually cares, they're able to track these things down. But they don't except in high profile cases.

[marginalia_nu]

Well sometimes at least.

When the government really cares, it can put all its resources to solve any particular problem. Though obviously that comes at the cost of reassigning resources from other tasks. Sadly it's impossible to assign all resources to solve every problem all at once.

[jeroenhd]

A lot of the fake browser traffic I'm seeing is coming from American data centres. China plays a major part, but if we're going by bot traffic, America will end up on the ban list pretty quickly.

[inetknght]

America does have laws against this kind of thing.

So instead of banning America, report the IP addresses to their American hosts for spam and malicious intent. If the host refuses to do anything, report it to law enforcement. If law enforcement doesn't do anything... then you're proving my point.

[dmantis]

So you are saying that if 95% of world population, including Chinese, Russians, etc reports American bot farm to American police, somebody would really review that and go after Americans?

BTW, how they should report it, if they are a small business/physical person without lawyers? Does US police have some kind of online hotline to report US criminals for foreigners or smth?

[inetknght]

It's almost as if there should be an international body of laws which covers fraud...

[dmantis]

That's not feasible for bots, crawling, IP laws, etc.

Strict fraud could be handled, but everything above is really different per jurisdiction by obvious reasons. There is nothing clearly good or bad in bots, or e.g. pirates, it depends on particular cultural perception. And if one nation thinks that the action is not a crime, it doesn't make sense to them to prosecute such actions for foreign requests.

[inetknght]

One problem at a time. A lot of the malicious activity of bots/crawling/etc hide behind plain fraud.

Combat fraud first so you can start to really identify the other more troublesome troublemakers.

Bots? Declare the owner. Lie about the owner? Fraud.

Crawling? Bots.

Intellectual property? That's an entire whole other industry.

[portaouflop]

How are you gonna force law enforcement to enforce the laws?

[inetknght]

Thanks for finding my point!

[jacobr1]

Slightly more complicated because a ton of the abuse comes from IPs located western countries, explicitly to evade fraud and abuse detection. Now you can go after the western owners of those systems (and all the big ones do have have large abuse teams to handle reports) but enforcement has a much higher latency. To be effective you would need a much more aggressive system. Stronger KYC. Changes in laws to allow for less due-process and more "guilty by default" type systems that you then need to prove innocence to rebut.

[warkdarrior]

And that assumes that the Western owners of those systems have any reason to listen to you, the one raising the complaint. How would they check that you are not lying?

[RIMR]

A wild take only possible if you don't understand how the Internet works.

[inetknght]

A wild opinion only valid if you have a defeatist attitude.