[causal]

I'd like to offer: both can be bad. Any large system is going to have a lot of inefficiencies, and something to dislike for everyone. But its overall function can still be important enough that taking a sledge hammer to the whole thing is still much more harmful than whatever motivated picking up the hammer.

[dennis_jeeves2]

>Any large system is going to have a lot of inefficiencies

Hence one needs the free market. The govt. typically lack the checks and balance that the free market automatically provides hence it _always_ results in bloat.

[causal]

Right, understanding that the government itself creates the space for the free market to operate, so any tinkering with it ought to be done carefully. New companies will replace old ones that die- and this is good. Failed states can and do happen, and it would be hubris to think it couldn't happen here.

[dennis_jeeves2]

>Right, understanding that the government itself creates the space for the free market to operate,

In the US the gov has become too big so that it cannot support a free market. ( there are some estimates that say 60% of our income goes into taxes of various forms). More over govt are the reason for a no freemarket. For me Govt is synonymous with the mafia, a more polished, legalized version ( yes, we differ here, so we can leave it at that)

>so any tinkering with it ought to be done carefully.

Most of the govt can be removed and no one will notice except govt employees.

[causal]

I suspect you greatly underestimate how much your life has been protected by the government you wish to eviscerate, but I suppose we shall see

[dennis_jeeves2]

No I do not think so- America owes its success to the common Americans, not to the govt. Personal question: Have you lived/worked at length in any third world country?

[Anamon]

Timothy Snyder's book "On Freedom" might be a good read for you. It's about this common (but quite recent) fallacy that freedom means only freedom of government interference or oppression, rather than true personal freedom being something that needs to be built and maintained by society at large -- which would be the core role of government.

In simple terms: how free do you think you would truly be to lead life the way you want if there were no institutions that produce and distribute electricity, manage communications networks, research and produce medicine, provide emergency services, build transportation infrastructure... something to think about. Few modern westerners would equate the idea of "freedom" with that of fully self-sufficient, isolated hermit life with everything that entails.

A lot of people today probably simply forgot how much of their cushy lifestyle was made possible by government, because they never had to work or fight to build it.

[causal]

In fact I have! And that has greatly informed my opinion: the people I encountered in those countries were every bit as capable as common Americans, but they lacked the institutional support which Americans so easily take for granted.