[mindcandy]

76 of those days are social security, medicare/medicaid, vet benefits, income security for the poorest citizens and interest payments.

15 of those days are national defense.

9 of those days are what Elon hopes to cut in half.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

The deficit is a huge problem. I don't know how to fix it. But, what DOGE has done so far is exactly the opposite of what makes sense.

[amrocha]

The deficit is not a huge problem. If all the deficit hawks literally disappeared tomorrow the country would run more efficiently.

[mindcandy]

From what I've read, the deficit looked like a huge problem and turned out to not be a problem from WWII to 2008. That's the situation most economists, finance leaders and regulators grew up in.

But, the demographic crisis means that moving forward our growth in entitlement spending for the growing population of seniors is far outpacing our growth in GDP from our slowing population of workers.

We can't tax or cut out way out of this. Elon's cuts are going to be performative at best. Real cuts would put tens of millions of seniors, vets and disabled people into destitution. Taxing the billionaires more would be nice. But, taxing them to zero would only paper over a few years of the problem.

The only way out I see is through massive investment to increase per-capita GDP long term. As a super duper liberal, I'm gung ho on "Bring manufacturing back!" in the form of

1. Re-prioritize trade schools and trade skills so we can actually perform high-skill work in factories if/when we build them. 2. Do everything we can to catch up with China making locally-built green energy tech dirt-cheap and highly effective. 3. Figure out how to incentivize the market to local build the interconnected web of advanced manufacturing capabilities needed to produce high tech goods fast and cheap.

I see the work of https://www.hadrian.co/ as an example of what I'm talking about. I'm starting to see some senators act like they need to stop talking about it and actually do something about it. But, the "best" I've heard from Trump is "Drill, baby. Drill!" and "Tariffs are magic."

If Trump laid out a plan for how to target tariffs surgically and use those proceeds to build up manufacturing, I'd be on board. But, he hasn't. Instead, he has made it clear his only plan is to create chaos, achieve performative concessions, and declare personal triumph while netting great harm for everyone in the end.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

I agree with your numbers. If we're seeing this much resistance to cutting down mostly foreign-focused programs, would you really be making this comment if Elon/Trump were trying to cut social security, medicare/aid, etc?

[mindcandy]

I would be 10X as concerned and so would everyone else because mishandling those programs could absolutely wreck the lives of tens of millions of people.

My point is that a lot of people seem to be in an "ends justify the means" mindset here where it's OK to rubber-stamp over laws, security, any sort of requirements for competence, or even basic understanding of what's being destroyed because in the end, this is chaos is going to have such a tremendous impact.

But, it's not. It mathematically can't. Even if it all turns out amazing it will be a small dent in the problem it's claiming to solve.

So, in the end, all of this is actually just chaos for sake of chaos. In the process, a whole lot of real people will be hurt in real ways. It's not bad at the same scale that "Turn off Medicare until we understand how it works" would be. But, it's nonsensically destructive in exactly the same way.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

>I would be 10X as concerned

Exactly my point. This is (one of the reasons) why Trump is cutting these small programs. People would really flip out if he cut social programs for Americans

[mindcandy]

Of course. But, then there's the rest of my comment...

[jensensbutton]

I think it's primarily the "how" that people are resisting. I'm not sure why that's being dismissed.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

Maybe elsewhere, but this specific thread (i.e. the parents I responded to) appears to focus on the actions, not the "how".

[wyager]

Have to start somewhere. Pork barrel patronage slush funds are an easier jumping point than welfare benefits.

[mindcandy]

I applaud the goal of rooting out the pork. But, "We have to do something. This is something." doesn't excuse how it's being done.

Turning off the entire flow of money is unnecessary, even counter-productive, to understanding how the money is flowing. Even if half of the money is waste, turning off the other half is causing tremendous real harm for no reason.

It is completely unnecessary and horrific to rubber stamp around national security protocol for something as incomprehensibly impactful as the federal payments system.

And, in the end, what are we going to get out of all of it? What I'm seeing out of Elon is propaganda about programs like "studying shrimp on treadmills" which was an microscopic piece of a very sensible study on marine safety and security. That's exactly the kind of work the government is supposed to be doing. But, if you frame it badly enough, you can destroy it for everyone and claim it as a victory.

[robertlagrant]

> Even if half of the money is waste, turning off the other half is causing tremendous real harm for no reason.

I mostly agree with you, except I would add that the waste is causing real harm as well, as it could be better spent.

[KennyBlanken]

Or we could repeal the Bush and Trump tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, that are largely responsible for the deficit exploding in the first place?

https://www.google.com/search?&q=trump+tax+cuts+defecit

[Acrobatic_Road]

They aren't though - not even close.

[xnx]

I agree, but note that comment was in response to one that wrote "Have to start somewhere."