[arrosenberg]

> I guess we got the government we voted for? And since it’s a democracy, I suppose that means we have exactly the government we deserve?

Well, we voted based on the only two options that were shoved down our throats by various groups of the wealthiest people on the planet. I don't personally think we deserve this, why would we? That said, if we don't do something, it won't get better.

[bilbo0s]

we voted based on the only two options that were shoved down our throats by various groups of the wealthiest people on the planet

Well, we should have made a system that didn’t allow the wealthiest people on the planet to do that.

Not trying to be flip, I’m just trying to point out that it still all comes back to us in the end. We just have to hope for the best at this point. Buyer’s remorse is not gonna change the actions these people are likely to take.

I do agree with you when you say, something needs to be done. If these pres-vice pres pairings are the best the current system could come up with, then obviously there is a need to add some new aspects to the system that might encourage more competence in the candidates it produces.

[gameman144]

> Well, we should have made a system that didn’t allow the wealthiest people on the planet to do that.

This feels correct-ish, but also pretty unrealistic. If you're born into a system where you have to choose between getting slapped and getting stabbed, then obviously the system shouldn't have been made that way -- that doesn't change the fact that it is that way, and you have to act within that system regardless of what ought to be the system instead.

[arrosenberg]

I agree to an extent. Most of us are either still young, or just getting our bearings and seeing the problems as adults in the last 10 or so years. I feel comfortable saying that, knowing the demographics of the site. Most of us had little-to-no ability to shape the current situation. Our window has just opened.

[spencerflem]

or closed forever

[spencerflem]

We didn't make the system, some slavers hundreds of years ago did.

It seems like we won't have to worry about the current system much longer though

[philjohn]

No, but enough people voted for the party that put the supreme court justices in place who ruled on citizens united over the years.

Voting isn't a one time thing, it has repercussions that can be felt decades later (see shortages of ATC because of the actions of Reagan in the 80's).

[spencerflem]

I don't disagree, but I also don't see how that's a contradiction

[krapp]

We had two options, and we chose the greater evil. We absolutely deserve what's coming.

[mythrwy]

Increased prosperity, intelligent leadership and lawful order? I'll take it!

[tombert]

Ok, so you stalked my comment history so I stalked yours.

What about the Trump administration is "intelligent"? Trump lies about everything. Pointing out other politicians lie isn't a good comeback. Trump lacks all understanding of how tariffs work, he said he was going to "repeal and replace" Obamacare on "day 1" in 2016, only to say he has "concepts of a plan" in 2024, whatever the fuck that means. He rarely has "ideas", he just bitches about stuff and handwaves away everything when pressed for any details.

"Lawful order"? I don't know that that means. I would say that writing a lot of executive orders that go directly against the constitution is literally the opposite of "lawful order", but you're free to disagree.

[theonething]

Deporting all these violent illegals has been outstanding in my opinion. He's actually enforcing existing immigration laws.

By way of threats of tariffs, He's gotten Columbia, Mexico and Canada to enact policies in the interests of America.

America gets constantly screwed by other nations because we've allowed great trade imbalances and weak borders. Other nations have been happy to step back and let the US fund the UN, NATO, etc. Historically, we have the lowest tariffs and accept the most illegal immigrants in the world. Trump's changing that and I'm here for it.

Btw, I'm all for legal immigration. I'm one myself. My family escaped a communist country and has experienced life under a leader much more authoritarian that what the Left conjures up about the other side.

[tombert]

Deporting violent immigrants is fine. Biden enforced immigration laws too, and when there was a bipartisan immigration reform bill Trump asked the conservatives to block it.

Trying to revoke birthright citizenship is not “enforcing existing law”.

The concessions from Mexico and Canada were already planned from last administration. Moreover, now there are retaliatory tariffs coming from them.

How does a trade imbalance imply that we are “screwed”? Trump repeats that constantly but it doesn’t seem implied to me.

The stuff about NATO is a lot more complicated than you’re making it out to be.

This is my biggest issue with Trump and his supporters, they treat everything as this incredibly reductive, black and white, “simple” issue.

[theonething]

> Biden enforced immigration laws too,

No he did not. Biden's first acts were to repeal Trump's stringent immigration orders. After 3 and half years with another election looming and seeing the disaster that caused, all of the sudden, his administration wasn't so hot on open borders anymore. If he enforced immigration laws, we wouldn't have so many people who have illegally entered the country.

> Trying to revoke birthright citizenship is not “enforcing existing law”.

And I never claimed that. But I support an amendment towards that end.

> The concessions from Mexico and Canada were already planned from last administration.

Nope, the 10,000 troops Mexico just agreed to is on top of whatever other things they "promised" to do. And tariffs are off the table for now.

> Moreover, now there are retaliatory tariffs coming from them.

Nope, no tariffs have been enacted on either side at the moment.

> How does a trade imbalance imply that we are “screwed”?

US trade imbalance by year:

2020: $626 billion 2021: $858 billion 2022: $971 billion 2023: $1 trillion

We also have historically the lowest tariff rates in the world. Gee, I wonder if that's related. And then when we raise them to level the playing field, everyone bitches and whines.

> The stuff about NATO is a lot more complicated than you’re making it out to be.

> This is my biggest issue with Trump and his supporters, they treat everything as this incredibly reductive, black and white, “simple” issue.

Pretty hand wavy there.

My issue with liberals is the lack of common sense, e.g. allowing biological men to destroy women in sports, not being willing to define what a woman is, getting mad at Trump for enforcing immigration laws (i.e. not letting people enter the country illegally and kicking out those who do)

[arunabha]

I guess time will tell if you're right. I hope you're right, because if not, we are in for very dark times.