[aprilthird2021]

Our highly individualistic culture is not suited to help people break free from addictions.

Does anyone remember when South Park had an episode about how evil some guy was for saying secondhand smoke was bad and how nuanced the topic was, and how it was people's right to smoke wherever they wanted?

I'm not saying that's everyone. I'm not saying that's solely why we fail at this. But it's an example of a culture that's broadly extremely individualistic and tolerant of aberrance from individuals. That has many advantages. One flaw of it, is that it becomes very hard, in such a culture, to tamp down on vices.

[supertrope]

Commercials for beer show actors having a wonderful time. At the end of the commercial is “Please drink responsibly” read very quickly or in small font at the bottom.

People who not raised with a strong defense in the form of a responsible role model that explains that beer is not needed for fun and commercials don’t tell the truth are much more susceptible to harmful influence. The same goes for sports betting.

[smackeyacky]

100% of those warnings are state or federal government initiatives. Diageo isn’t doing that without coercion

[s1artibartfast]

I don't think it is an issue of individualism, but a rise of moral relativism and nonjudgement.

Growing up I never wanted to do meth because meth tweekers were disgusting and had the lowest social standing. My aversion wasn't from of pro social behavior, it was rooted in self-interest.

There is a difference between tolerating aberrance, and refusing to make judgements about the world and others.

That's simply how humans learn and function. You can look at the life of an alcoholic or tv addicts and say that seems horrible and I don't want to be like that.

[aprilthird2021]

Moral relativism is a very individualistic idea. It very much enables a highly individualistic society.

> I never wanted to do meth because meth tweekers were disgusting and had the lowest social standing. My aversion wasn't from of pro social behavior, it was rooted in self-interest.

Self-interest is not sacrificed for group interest in non-individualistic societies. Rather self-interest and group interest are aligned in such societies.

So, as an example, you didn't want to do meth, but you didn't think it your place to police the tweakers you saw. You didn't see them as a harm to society. And your self-interest was not the same as the interests of society.

[s1artibartfast]

I think we each may take a lot of baggage into the ideas and term individualistic and would probably be better served with a more specific term. From my persecutive, the amount of self sacrifice required is synonymous with the level of individualism.

I think that individualism-collectivism is on one axis, and permissive vs strict expectations is on a different axis.

I think that depends highly on the non-individualistic society in question, but I take your point.