[tempodox]

I feel like Swift is being held hostage by Apple. I can't get get the next version of Swift, because it's being distributed with a higher version of Xcode that only runs on an OS version I don't want to install (yet), and even if I did, I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that. That trick seems to work with enough developers to make Apple ever more rich and powerful and even more arrogant (if that's possible at all), but it doesn't work with me. As much as I appreciate Swift, I will only ever use it on my terms, not on Apple's.

[rescripting]

This isn’t true, you can get the next version of Swift by downloading a pkg installer from https://www.swift.org/install/macos/

You can get it bundled with Xcode as well if you’d like, but it’s not necessary.

[tempodox]

But you cannot run the product on an iDevice and a build for Mac Catalyst isn't even possible. “Bundled with Xcode” is very much necessary.

[madeofpalk]

Swift isn't the one being held hostage, it's iOS development.

[declan_roberts]

While i am sympathetic to you, you have to see that you represent a vanishing small use case for them.

[AlotOfReading]

Isn't that their complaint though? They don't want to participate in a language where they can only ever be a second class citizen.

[diggan]

> As much as I appreciate Swift, I will only ever use it on my terms, not on Apple's.

Apple's ethos for a long time have been "On our terms only", for almost everything they've built. Why would they treat Swift any differently?

[threeseed]

> I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that

Which means you are running Mojave and your Mac is at least 6 years old.

I wouldn't expect anyone to support developers who are running a two generation old OS.

[kelnos]

I can run the latest version of my OS of choice on hardware twice that old.

This is only a problem that Apple has created to help them sell hardware. These days, a 6-year-old laptop is still a perfectly capable machine.

[threeseed]

And it is still a perfectly capable machine.

But you can't expect Apple to support it as a development platform. Especially when they want you to use the latest SDKs which only work on newer machines.

[tempodox]

You're moving the goal posts. I'm not interested in SDKs that cannot work on a given OS or CPU, I just want to update the compiler to make use of progress in the language, without being forced by Apple to buy new hardware for that, or install a different OS. You pretending these things cannot be separated looks deeply disingenuous.