[yt-sdb]

I appreciate the point being made---that we're too reductive in how we view a healthy human body---but calling Patrick Mahomes "one of the greatest athletes on planet earth" is laughable. He's more healthy than many adults, but he's no means an outlier amongst _athletes_. Compare that claim to this header [1] by Cristiano Ronaldo. He jumped 2.6 meters, at pace, perfectly timed, to score a goal, in his mid-30s.

And more generally, I would take almost no health advice from American footballers, many (most?) of whom will go into old age with ailments and injuries due how they treated their bodies.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZ1O6uFdAE

[lukas099]

He’s the most successful player in the most competitive position in the most competitive league in one of the most competitive sports on Earth.

American football requires a different skill tree than world football. So of course if you only judge by the standards of world football he is not great. But why would you do that?

And athleticism as different from health. In fact, beyond a threshold I believe it is detrimental to it.

[jghn]

> He’s the most successful player in the most competitive position ...

That is likely to wind up true when it's all said & done but Tom Brady still holds that title.

[lukas099]

I meant currently successful, not throughout history, but yeah I can see that.

[acatnamedjoe]

> He’s the most successful player in the most competitive position in the most competitive league in one of the most competitive sports on Earth

Isn't it exactly the point of the article though that this doesn't necessarily mean elite across-the-board athleticism?

Your statement would also have described Tom Brady for most of his career, and I don't think anyone would seriously claim he was a 99%ile athlete (certainly not for sprinting, agility, etc.)

[lukas099]

Personally I can’t see how Brady is not a top athlete. It’s like judging a jazz musician on the skills needed in pop music or vice versa. You have to look at success within the genre or sport.

[acatnamedjoe]

It seems like this is more about the semantics of what we mean by athleticism then?

It sounds like for you, being a top athlete simply means being very good at a sport.

I've always generally understood athleticism to be about raw physical traits, like speed, strength and agility (and is therefore only part of the range of attributes that makes up the overall profile of a sportsperson).

Out of interest would you consider people performing at an elite level in high-skill, relatively low-physicality sports like golf to be top athletes?

[lukas099]

Yes

[jjtheblunt]

He benefits from superlative play calling and a superlative supporting cast (pacheco etc) with no way to clearly establish how much that benefits his stats. Contrast him with same size Caleb Williams and it gets interesting, for example.

[exceptione]

? You can assume that parent knows who Cristiano Ronaldo is.

[lukas099]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I was talking about Mahomes.

[exceptione]

I see you edited your post, it is now clearer what you meant. I think you have a very local perspective, but you have every right to enjoy that. I have nothing to win in a handball versus football debate, besides calling spades spades. :)

[lukas099]

Fair enough. I would submit that you probably have a local perspective as well.

[exceptione]

If you live in the Netherlands you have to assume others don't know as much about you as you do about the bigger boys. :)

We have our own kind of "American Football" in the Netherlands, it is called ice skating. But.. every Dutchman understands that being the world champion in ice skating doesn't say much as it is a highly local phenomenon.

But you still can enjoy the athleticism that such a sport requires.

[fear91]

Calling American football “one of the most competetive sports on Earth” feels like a stretch. It’s big in US, but not that popular anywhere else.

[jppope]

The United States debatably has the most athletic population of an country and its the top sport in America where we funnel all of our talent (probably to our detriment). Regardless of the popularity abroad its where our athletes go.

When we do compete in other sports we fair above average to exceptional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_t...) with the notable exception of soccer, which we've never broken through despite investment and a decent population of players.

Don't kid yourself, just because other countries don't play American Football doesn't mean the players aren't freak athletes - they are

[lukas099]

It’s not the #1 sport there, but NFL football is popular in Canada too. To me, it’s dominance in North America is enough to qualify but I respect your position.

[recursivedoubts]

There are different types of athleticism. Quarterback in the NFL is the most difficult and important position on the field. Without taking anything away from him, like most humans, Ronoldo wouldn't last a single NFL game.

[AnimalMuppet]

True. But equally, Mahomes wouldn't last a single top-level soccer game. The running is much more continuous, and far longer than NFL players run in a game. NFL players have tuned their bodies for a different activity profile, one that fits the NFL but doesn't fit professional soccer.

[recursivedoubts]

agree entirely, that's my point

[fear91]

And Mahomes wouldn’t last a 3 minute round with a boxer.

[recursivedoubts]

agree entirely

[exceptione]

I would rather associate athleticism with very fine motion control than raw power.

Otherwise we would look at kick boxing.

[lukas099]

Throwing a football accurately to a moving receiver whilst evading tackling giants surely qualifies, right?

[exceptione]

To me that looks less impressive, as most humans do have very fine hand control. But that shouldn't take away any of your pleasure. I assume that the sport is competitive enough to have a high bar for entry.

[recursivedoubts]

baseball players and golfers have some of the most extreme fine motor control in sports

i love both sports, but wouldn't call the players universally "athletic"

[exceptione]

I think you are right. An even better counter example imho would be darts :)

Although... fine motion control is more natural for hands then for legs. In football, running on full speed, while keeping the ball close to the foot, then evading defenders (still on full speed), making an accurate pass to a team player. Almost any boy on the planet dreams about those skills, some are able learn a few of these skills somewhat. But it requires abnormal leg control.

In football there is a harsh filter of it not only being the global #1 sport, so insanely competitive, but also because it requires an insane fine control where we normally don't have that.

Does not take away from other sports like tennis, or base ball. For most sports the elite level will be unreachable for most humans.

[recursivedoubts]

When michael jordan can't make the pros in baseball, you know it's a different thing.

[yencabulator]

You think kickboxing doesn't include very fine motion control? Stand on the ball of your foot and kick to your forehead height, please. Deliver power while doing that. No, you need to control your hands at the same time. Your target is about half an inch in size. Sorry, you were too slow. Sorry, you telegraphed your movement so your opponent evaded you.

[jppope]

American Football is debatably the competitive sports league with the greatest athletes in the world and he is a top athlete in that league by results. How can you substantiate a claim that he is not one of the greatest athletes on the planet if not by results and the competition?

Also your comment about Ronaldo is basically that he can jump high and run fast which makes him one of the greatest athletes? I think he's an amazing athlete but not because of his vertical jump. There were 30+ kids at my high school with a higher vertical jump than him.

The article's point is that there is more to athleticism than run fast, jump high. They are right.

[naveen99]

There are only 100k professional athletes in the world. That’s 1 in 100k rounding to 10 billion people. So a professional athlete is already 4.2 standard deviations above average. Top 1% is only 2.5 standard deviations above average.

There are closer to a million professional actors… so actors in general are around 4 sd above average.

[exar0815]

Another amazing feat of age is Noriaki Kasai, 51 Years old, still active in competitive ski jumping. Oldest Person to ever win a world cup competition. In 2014. And still (sometimes more, sometimes less) capable of performing.

https://youtu.be/dEkk7coK6Bs?si=2d37ssmtJtzv3Mp-