Ask HN: Steps to becoming a software engineer at FAANG?

[roadtoswe]

I know this has probably been asked before many times, but wondering if the steps to becoming a software engineer have changed given the rise in popularity of LLMs, and whether someone in their early 30s even has a chance of becoming a software engineer (at FAANG or other companies with similar compensation and competitiveness) with no prior programming experience.

Some background: Early 30s, no programming experience. Interested in starting with Python as that is the language that has the most intuitive syntax for me, and because of its obvious popularity in the AI/ML world.

Questions: 1) Is it too late to become a software engineer at FAANG or other companies with similar compensation? Money is not the only driving factor, but it is helpful. Assume a reasonably motivated individual, but no prior programming experience and minimal math experience.

2) If it is not too late, what would be a well-delineated roadmap for someone to become a software engineer (courses/textbooks/math/etc) that is interested in AI/ML/GenAI? Currently going through CS50 Programming with Python.

3) Do AI/ML/GenAI jobs typically want a Masters/PhD CS grad? What other areas of software engineering are interesting and/or underexplored?

[scarface_74]

I know this HN and populated by developers. But there are a lot more ways to get into a FAANG than software development and still make top of market comp.

For instance Amazon is a FAANG. But at the end of the day, they are 50% a consumer goods company. I know people who have gotten in through Finance because they had experience at another CPG company, someone who got in through the marketing department and someone hired as an internal recruiter.

All of the BigTech companies have thousands of non tech jobs that pay top of market.

I personally got into AWS (no longer there) because I was a good enterprise developer, I had AWS experience and I knew how to lead projects and talk to people. I got a job in the Professional Services department as a hands on consultant (full time direct hire). There were all types of non tech jobs in my department - sales, project management, program management, etc.

On that same note, if I wanted to get back into another FAANG (at 50 I would rather get a daily anal probe with a cactus), I would have a much better chance getting into Google via the Google Cloud Consulting division than someone trying to “grind leetcode” and get in as a software developer. Yes that is also a full time position.

Final note: ageism is very real in the industry. But more nuanced. If you are old, have the experience you “should” have for your age, an up to date skillset a great network and a reputation, the world is your oyster.

If any of that is not true, especially in 2025, you’re screwed.

[roadtoswe]

Great point about getting into FAANG/Tech companies through non-software development roles. However, I feel like I really enjoy the software process, despite my minimal programming experience. From what I've learned so far, it has been quite enjoyable.

[scarface_74]

The chance of getting into BigTech as a software developer is less than 1%.

https://igotanoffer.com/en/advice/how-to-get-into-big-tech-c...

And that includes people with degrees in computer science and experience.

And even doing the preparation for the interview can take 6-12 months with a CS background

https://www.designgurus.io/answers/detail/how-many-days-to-m...

[roadtoswe]

I am also content for working with small interesting startups/companies. Yeah, I am expecting a timeline of 4-5 years to gain the relevant skillsets.

[scarface_74]

Choose one of the following paths.

https://roadmap.sh/

[roadtoswe]

Thanks for the this.

[AnimalMuppet]

How much are you willing to pay for that money?

First, getting hired at a FAANG is not easy. How many years are you willing to work, not work at a job, but just work at getting hired?

Second, FAANGs pay well, but the work/life balance is often terrible. How many years are you willing to have no life, in order to get that kind of money?

I would suggest that you think about having more of a life, even if you have less money, rather than grinding away at a chance at grinding away at a job that pays a lot. Your 30s are some good years. Live them; don't just work during them.

But the first steps look the same. Learn a language - any one. Python is fine. And, whatever you're doing now, look for ways to help your work with a little programming - a script here that automates a manual process, a script there that makes something easier. Depending on your work environment, you may not even need to ask for permission to do those things. But now you have written code that's actually used. That opens doors at your current job to do more. Along this route, you get experience, and you get paid to get it. It's a wonderful thing if you can get it to happen.

[roadtoswe]

I know I would definitely need to do some cost-benefit analysis. Good advice regarding implementing scripts to help within the work environment.

[testfit1]

1) Not everyone can cook, but great cooks can come from anywhere. SWE @ FAANG is a high bar, not everyone can reach it. Being older will make it more difficult. But it is not impossible and the only way to find out is to try.

2) Given you have no prior CS background, I would recommend finding a undergraduate / graduate program. I would heavily recommend internships / part-time work as a student. The easiest way to get into FAANG is via return offer for internship. You should practice SWE interviewing and prepare a lot for those interviews, they are a big blocker for many roles, and interviewing techniques are not commonly taught in university.

3) Depends on if you want to do research or engineering and how good you are. I don't think you should worry about this problem now though, you aren't at the stage where specialization matters. Just learn about what interests you.

I think if you're serious about your goal of making it into FAANG, the best-case timeline would be ~5 years. I would break down your goal into smaller ones (Graduation, first internship, first job, etc) along the way to maintain momentum.

The game is definitely worth the grind financially though. Best of luck!

[roadtoswe]

I feel like I can learn the material without going into an undergraduate program, however as you mentioned that pathway is the best way into getting an internship. Do you think the best-case timeline would still be ~5 years without going through undergrad? Or would it likely be extended? I appreciate the comments/advice.

[testfit1]

The timeline is largely a function of how talented you are and how hard you work.

If you can maintain the rigor and pace of an undergraduate CS degree by yourself, you'll be fine. But I think that's really hard to do, and also misses some of the group aspect of college learning (you can augment with OSS projects though).

If this was 2020 I wouldn't recommend for you to go to college, I would say just bootcamp or self study, and find some startup to work at and hone your skills, and job hop from there. But junior hiring has grown much more competitive.

Do you have any network you can leverage to find a first job? If so, I think that route is definitely better. But in the current market I don't see why a company would hire you vs. some random new grad.

[roadtoswe]

That's definitely true regarding your last point. Maybe I need to contribute significantly to some OSS projects or have a really nice side project or portfolio of side projects to level the playing field?

[testfit1]

It will help, but you won't be able to totally level the playing field.

For entry level, recruiters get thousands of candidates. They skim each resume for 30s to decide who to bring on to interview and usually don't have the technical context to understand OSS / side projects. If you don't have a degree you likely won't make it past the screen. Also there are many new grads with impressive OSS contributions / side projects.

Also, making a meaningful OSS contribution is ... hard. You have minimal programming experience, you're going to need to learn a lot just to be able to fix a typo. Not to discourage, but just to put into perspective (I work on OSS for FAANG).

[roadtoswe]

Indeed it is something to think about. I appreciate all the advice you gave. Last question, I'm currently taking CS50's Programming with Python and MITs Intro to CS in Python, what would be a good branching point after those two courses? I know it depends on the individual and their interests, but what would you best recommend with respect to your point of view? I'll also be learning math (calculus, linear algebra) simultaneously, to develop the math background to tackle AI/ML.

[roland35]

I think it is definitely possible if you are smart and motivated. This is my career path that worked for me -

- Started out at a small research organization after college. The pay was very low but I got to have a lot of autonomy and own interesting projects

- Moved to a old fashioned manufacturing company doing software (think the complexity of a microwave). Tried to learn some backend engineering on the side while there by proposing new projects.

- Got a remote job at a startup which was growing. I think this helped me the most get relevant experience in system design.

- Applied and got interviews with 3 FAANG companies (2021 was great...). Was able join in 2021 during the rush.

The nice thing about large companies is that they are more likely to take a flyer on non-traditional backgrounds. Your evaluation is based a lot on your interview performance, which you can study for! And you should have good behavioral round answers in whatever career you've had.

Good luck!

[roadtoswe]

Motivating journey. Was there any material/resource (e.g., books, courses, etc) that helped you develop the knowledge base? Or was it mostly from working on projects, job experience, and the startup experience?

[999900000999]

>Some background: Early 30s, no programming experience.

So instead of getting an education and finding an entry level job, you want to go straight to the top.

I'll put it this way, I have over a decade of experience and I've interviewed at 2 of the FAANGs. Never got hired though.

I've still made a ton of money . More money then I ever thought I would. You probably need to be more realistic. Even if you're only making 120 or 130k , That's still much more than most people ever will.

[roadtoswe]

I do have an education, just not in computer science/engineering. I understand, some people never get into FAANG. I know you can make good money without getting into FAANG. I just used FAANG (or insert other companies) as a hypothetical goal. Thanks for the input.

[VirusNewbie]

This reads a bit like someone saying they bought some basketball shoes and started practicing some dribbling, and they want to know how to get into the NBA.

Do you even like playing basketball? Do you just see the money and the lifestyle and think "ok that sounds good, how do I get that"?

I think these are the wrong questions to be asking.

[paulcole]

Let’s get real here.

There’s like 550 NBA players. There’s what, like 10,000 engineers at Google alone?

A person who leetcodes their way to Amazon isn’t in the same universe of comparative-skill-level as the 11th man on an NBA bench.

[VirusNewbie]

Yes, it's note as competitive as the NBA, the minimum NBA salary is over 5x what the 'minimum' FAANG salary is.

None the less I think it gets the point across that just because you can program doesn't mean you can work at a FAANG. Similarly, just because you're good enough to play high school varsity doesn't mean you can get to the NBA.

[paulcole]

> None the less I think it gets the point across that just because you can program doesn't mean you can work at a FAANG.

This is orders of magnitude less true than the high school varsity and NBA comparison.

If someone can program well enough to be paid by someone to do it and is driven enough, I’d bet that they can get a FAANG offer at some point in their lives. Most people will fail at the drive part.

There is no level of drive that allows 99.9% of high school varsity starters to take off their warmups at a D1 university program, let alone the NBA. It will never ever ever ever happen.

[itsankur]

So if it isn't drive, than that really only leaves: - genetics - coaching/enviornment?

Basically, you are born with the required genetics + surrounded with the right coaching from a very early age or you won't get into the NBA right?

Are there other factors you think contribute? What percentage weight would you put on each factor if you had to guess.

I think you're likely correct here. There's definitely exceptions to this, but those exceptions fit into the 99.9% figure you have here.

[VirusNewbie]

sure, fine, substitute NBA with L8 at FAANG or something. Now, I stll think you're either in FAANG (or somewhere more exclusive?) and surrounded by very talented people and over extrapolating to the general programmer population, or making assumptions never having worked there.

There are a lot of engineers that cannot pass even basic warmup questions and probably never will be able to.

[itsankur]

L8 might be apt, but honestly human brains are far more fluid and dynamic than human limb length. You can train your brain to do remarkable things it couldn't do before remarkably fast. You just can't train your limbs to be a foot longer.

Aka, I'd argue that elon musk drive gives you a greater chance to become an L8 engineer, where as elon musk drive may make you an NBA player, but at a significantly lower chance.

[roadtoswe]

I know I should have framed the question in a less naive way. I did some very basic programming running some statistics before, and enjoyed the process greatly. But I would not classify it as programming experience in the general sense, it was more about thinking of the statistical problem at hand and using minimal programming to help. I would still classify myself in the "no programming or minimal programming" category, but I'm not oblivious to the industry.

[VirusNewbie]

ok, well assuming you're not naive, not jut chasing some prestige or money (because those are far from guaranteed), you have to learn how to both become a good software engineer, and how to interview. Too many people focus on the latter, not realizing that is only a problem if you're getting interviews.

To actually build up the resume and skills of the craft, I would invest and contribute to popular, widely used Open Source projects that have an active community, conferences, mailing lists and the like.

This will take a lot of investment, but having non trivial contributions to core software many companies use is often a better resume tick than an internship or experience at a no name company.

I had multiple well known, non FAANG big tech engineers invite me to come interview after they saw my contributions to some larger Open Source projects.

Then, passing the interview is another story, but there are many paid and unpaid resources to guide you through that process.

[roadtoswe]

Thanks for the advice regarding Open Source contribution.