[blackeyeblitzar]

The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally. DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so it’s thought), and while they added some optimizations on top, it seems like they’ve lied about the costs to produce their models by simply being vague about their base model and training data, and quoting the cost of their final training run.

And then there’s all the dystopian propaganda baked into these models, which threatens to misinform users at scale based on a government driven agenda. Hard to be on that team, let alone firmly, knowing that it’s giving power to a dictatorial regime.

[wkat4242]

The US models are also full of censorship. For example the US is much more sensitive to anything related to sexuality and here in Europe it's quite frustrating to deal with that censorship.

[infecto]

I think we will find that each region will have their own flair of censorship. The only reason it stands out more from a Chinese perspective is the requirement to have alignment with PRC/CCP rhetoric.

[wkat4242]

Yes that's what I mean. I wish all models were uncensored and it would just be up to the implementer to decide how to finetune on top of that. Save for the super crazy stuff of course.

[mvc]

> The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally

And when they thought they were the only game in town, they tried to corner the market in GPUs and lock out any users who can't pony up £200/mo. Reminds me of when the likes of Oracle and IBM had companies by the balls buying bigger and bigger servers and then Google came along and showed everyone how to do horizontal scaling of cheap hardware.

[raxxor]

That was perhaps a bit too general, but aside from meta and Google they didn't share their research and tried to sell AI products as fast as possible and tried to lobby legislation to keep their head start. I would also include nvidia here, that has some moat through software integrations.

I haven't tested deepseek for censorship yet, but they shared their release and even their input data. And in this case you could correct its shortcomings, so propaganda would be difficult.

[famouswaffles]

>DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so it’s thought)

The first one is definitely not true and the 2nd one is not necessarily true in the way you imagine i.e crawls of the internet will have gpt chat logs now.

[timeon]

> DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs

Those models are also trained on data that was ignoring licenses / copyrighted content.

[ithkuil]

That's a problem for sure. But why would that argument play in favour china which would be even less constrained by licenses / copyright ?

[timeon]

I didn't mean it as favour for China. Just that this industry is unfortunately like that.