[inglor_cz]

My experience is that many liberal Americans tend to admire European welfare systems as a counterpoint to the more cut-throat US systems, and really, really don't want to discuss the downsides.

People need to dream, I guess.

The US is a terrible place to live in if you are poor. But for a typical Hacker News denizen, moving anywhere to the high-taxation domiciles of Europe would mean a major loss of income and worsening of many services.

[sneak]

…and a major reduction in services.

I live half the year in big cities in the US and half the year in Berlin, capital of the largest economy in the EU.

It’s crazy to me to hear how US people idealize the situation in Europe, or how Europeans talk about the US system. Each has pros and cons but neither can ignore economic reality. Single payer doesn’t mean that money isn’t flowing and negotiations don’t happen. No government can repeal supply and demand without enslaving doctors.

[inglor_cz]

The Slovak government literally wants to try slavery light for doctors.

They passed a bill that makes it a crime for doctors to "avoid work" in some conditions, and these conditions aren't just natural catastrophes etc., but any "emergency due to deficiencies of healthcare" that the government declares at will.

https://minutovezpravy.cz/clanek/slovensko-chce-prinutit-lek...

That made a lot of news. It is every bit as bad as it sounds.

[Tainnor]

Slovakia under its current government is literally the second-most anti-EU country of the EU (after Hungary - though maybe Austria will soon follow suit), so I'm not sure if that illustrates your point well.

[inglor_cz]

They aren't doing this because they disagree with the EU-wide consensus on general welfare / healthcare policies, though. Fico isn't Javier Milei, he is a pro-Russian populist social democrat, precisely the type of politican that promises unrealistic levels of welfare for a relatively poor state.

As it happens, almost everyone in the EU is trying to support unrealistic levels of welfare relative to their economy, but of course the weaker countries like Slovakia will feel the bite of reality first, while the richest part of the continent can continue kicking the can down the road for a decade or so if they really wish to close their eyes.

Though lately, the Germans are starting to have some really somber conversations. A sick man of Europe all again, and dragging down 10 other economically-intertwined countries with it.

[tartoran]

> Though lately, the Germans are starting to have some really somber conversations.

Yeah, and Elon Musk is stoking Alternative für Deutschland. Not sure what's going to come out of it but it doesn't look too good for Germany either.

[Tainnor]

> But for a typical Hacker News denizen, moving anywhere to the high-taxation domiciles of Europe would mean a major loss of income and worsening of many services.

What's a "typical Hacker News denizen"? Not everyone is driven solely by monetary concerns. I visited the US in autumn, had a good time, but would I live there? No. I think "many services" are actually better in many parts of Europe (such as public transport).

Others may see it differently and that's fine, but please let's not act like the US isn't crumbling under a weight of 100 problems at least just as much as Europe.

[inglor_cz]

A typical Hacker News denizen is someone within the US IT industry. Yeah, there are outliers again, but that is the core demographics here.

The US is pretty big. Personally, I would avoid a lot of places, but, for example, the mix of American and Cuban culture in Florida is really refreshing to me.

Public transport is one of the few things in which the US is definitely behind the times. Not just behind Europe, but behind everyone-but-Africa. For example, the new Chinese-built metro in Dhaka, Bangladesh, is nice, safe and clean. IDK what is wrong with the Americans in this regard...

That said, read the Draghi report. There is absolutely no doubt that Europe needs massive reforms unless it wants to become irrelevant, but there is a lot of doubt if the political will is here.

By far the most important voting bloc are the pensioners, and they don't want any disturbances to the system that served their generation well.

[Tainnor]

> A typical Hacker News denizen is someone within the US IT industry.

You'd be surprised.

I never said that the EU isn't in need of a reform, just that I wouldn't trade the American problems (opiod crisis, mostly non-walkable cities, gated communities, lack of public transport, lack of architecture older than a couple of hundred years, lack of proximity to other major linguistic centres except Mexico, insane tipping culture, rampant poverty, and let's not talk about the political system, ...) for the ones we have. Others may think differently, that's fine.