[tenthirtyam]

> At least with some precious metal, it has a floor value as a function of its practical uses and abundance.

I don't really give this argument much credence any more. If the value of, say, gold or diamonds were to drop their practical-use-floor-value, they'd be valued at probably less than 1% (maybe much less) of current value. I mean, how much gold is actually consumed by industry? And we even have industrial diamonds now.

A friend argued to me that crypto is "A Terrible Thing" because its just used to fuel the (illegal) narcotics industry. At this point, I'm doubting that too - the market cap of all crpyto, and the value being transacted e.g. daily volume, has increased massively recently. Are we to believe that narcotics have caused that? I can't imagine so - more likely to me it's around 90-99% speculation which, you might well argue, is "Another Terrible Thing."

[wat10000]

I think the main thing precious metals have going for them is tradition. That’s no small thing. They’ve been considered valuable for millennia, and that’s likely to continue. Bitcoin might be replaced by some other fad in a decade.

It’s like if you’re betting on a religion, Christianity is more likely to last than Scientology. They might both be equally made up, but one has demonstrated staying power.

[flakeoil]

It's of course not the criminal use of crypto that has caused the price to increase so much lately, but the use of it for criminal activity is one of its main real use cases (apart from speculation which is not a real use case).

[Cthulhu_]

> I mean, how much gold is actually consumed by industry?

[0] indicates there's a demand of about 5000 tonnes of gold per year, with about 560 tonnes going into technology and electronics (the vast majority still going to jewellery). The total amount of gold in the world is about 212.500 tonnes according to [1], which is a cube of only 22x22 meters. [2] says about 3600 tonnes are mined per year and about 1200 tonnes is recycled/reused.

[0] https://www.gold.org/goldhub/research/gold-demand-trends/gol...

[1] https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/how-much-gold

[2] https://www.gold.org/goldhub/research/gold-demand-trends/gol...

[rasmus-kirk]

> A friend argued to me that crypto is "A Terrible Thing" because its just used to fuel the (illegal) narcotics industry.

That's a good thing, though.

Jokes aside, as a person who loves crypto technologically and agrees with the more cipherpunk roots of bitcoin, I have not seen anyone serious use crypto for anything other than drugs or small transactions, just for the sake of it. People usually just seems to hoard the stuff, which is incredibly stupid since the main value proposition of crypto is being able to transact it. I almost respect the people buying drugs with it more, since they at least use cryptocurrency, rather than just speculating in its value to fuel their gambling addiction.

[tenthirtyam]

> a person who loves crypto technologically and agrees with the more cipherpunk roots of bitcoin

Yep, that'd be me too. What gets my blood pressure rising is the sheer amount of coins & tokens available now all of which, bar perhaps a tiny fraction, seem to have no value proposition other than "number go up". To me, NFTs are the nadir of this concept. I struggle to imagine a legitimate use case for any crypto that doesn't involve rapid, frictionless transacting.

For example, there are a couple of fantastic services, like "Cauldron DEX" or "BCHBull" (no affiliation) - smart contracts which allow for trustless swapping of tokens. The concept is genius and the execution here seems very good (to me, non cryptographer) but, again, what can I do with these tokens or coins I've traded except trade them later for some other token or coin?

BCHBull seems to allow exposure to commodities and some fiat currencies - that makes it comparable I suppose to actual currency or commodity speculation which has been going on for centuries. One might still argue "what can I do with all this gold except trade it later for oil?" but, well, that seems to be a weaker criticism.

[buu700]

Agreed, but unironically. US tobacco consumption is at a historic low, while people are dying from an opioid epidemic and fentanyl contamination, and somehow the War on Drugs is nearly unquestioned as good policy? Prosecuting people for making poor health choices is such an extreme and frankly insane idea.

Let's go back to selling Bayer Heroin™ at pharmacies, with sensible regulations. That would better position us to minimize narcotic use over the long term, while also making it safer, and defunding the cartels while we're at it. In the meantime, if someone is going to do drugs, I'm all for them using cryptocurrency to make the process as safe as it can be given the circumstances.

[amluto]

The actual market value of diamonds is pretty low. You can pay a jeweler a lot of money for a shiny diamond, but good luck reselling it for a similar amount of money.

Gold, OTOH, is fungible. You can melt it, mold it into different shapes bars, resell it, etc.

[jajko]

With diamond jewelry, you pay mostly for the manual work of jeweler since folks don't go to jewelry shops to buy a diamond stone alone. If we talk about gold bars, no sophisticated manual work involved, just pouring molten gold into some mold on semi-industrial automated scale.

If you buy sophisticated golden jewelry, you also pay ton for work that nobody else may appreciate. Sure you can get it smelted into something else, but you burn most of the original value, and some more on the change itself.

[spiritplumber]

Diamond value went through the window already (as it should), if gold came down to use value, we'd see it used more for electronics and electrochemistry.

[XorNot]

I mean, this is all true which is why we have fiat currencies.

The UK government has consistently honoured debt for longer then the US has existed, for example.

[nine_k]

Inflation, and especially controlled inflation, is much easier with fiat money. Most governments see it as an extremely valuable tool.

[lesuorac]

> A friend argued to me that crypto is "A Terrible Thing" because its just used to fuel the (illegal) narcotics industry.

My general argument against this is that Ransomware _predates_ Crypto.

There's also the whole Regan airlifted Iran literal USD for helping him win a presidential election so you don't need crypto for scummy behavior.