[frozenport]

I did speak to folks on the North Vietnamese side. I kinda found it really interesting.

They read these stories of escape as emblematic of the southern government’s cowardice rather than heroism. In some ways these are stories of active military deserting their posts.

It was no surprise to these North Vietnamese patriots that they triumphed.

[refurb]

Considering the hundreds of thousands (millions?) that were imprisoned after the war for any suspected contact with the Americans or South Vietnamese government, and the horrific conditions they were held under (forced labor, malnutrition, disease, death) they maybe shouldn't act so surprised?

Even today in Vietnam, these families are still "marked" by the regime and not allowed to serve in government roles for three generations. It's a blood liable.

[duxup]

I like to think if I saw an opponent escaping a lost war with his family I would understand that someone who served is not a coward.

[bluGill]

Not a good idea since they might be regrouping to fight another day.

war is aweful.

[snozolli]

Given the acts of brutality committed by the VC against those who didn't willingly join their cause, I wouldn't have stuck around with my family, either. One example from, as I recall, early in the division was burning alive the mayor of a village that refused to adopt communism. These things never get talked about and the only reason I've even heard of this was from listening to an interview on Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Addendum podcast.

[dylan604]

> I wouldn't have stuck around with my family, either

Which is a major plot point of stories like Handmaid's Tale where you get caught in a civil war with opposing views of the territory you're in when it starts. You didn't start the war, but now you're an enemy for just living in your home. Do you just give up your beliefs or do you try to get out of there?

All war is hell, but civil wars especially

[p3rls]

It's true-- just like in Marvel the comic book movie, where the bad guy causes upwards of 50% casualties on the entire planet!

[whimsicalism]

the US literally industrialized the process of burning alive people in vietnam who didn’t support the colonial government. would love a source on the mayor claim

[snozolli]

You're a perfect example of why reporting about Vietnam was horribly broken. We all know about the atrocities committed by the Americans, but nobody understands how horrendous the VC were, and the direct threat they presented to those conquered.

I've already given you the source for the mayor story, but you're not actually interested in it, are you? You'll stay blissfully ignorant with false plausible deniability.

[whimsicalism]

do you have a source that’s written aka not a podcast? googling the mayor burning claim just brings me to your comment

even just a transcript of the episode you’re discussing. generally i find if someone responds with ire rather than a link, the event usually did not happen as they remembered it

[sillywalk]

Wikipedia has an article, with links to sources. I think the main source is Douglas Pike's The Vietcong Strategy of Terror[0]. Another Vietnam Expert, Bernard Fall, documents some of it in Vietnam Witness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong_and_People%27s_Army_...

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20230405095258/https://vva.vietn...

[whimsicalism]

there is no mention of this 'mayor burning alive' story in either of these sources. nor do i really trust this book, written during the vietnam war, while the US propaganda efforts were mounting up.

[akdor1154]

I disagree with whoever is downvoting you - what you describe is exactly how this would have been presented to northern soldiers and civilians, whether or not it's true.