[mertbio]

The issue in Germany is that most companies don't take software seriously. They often outsource their software to freelancers or establish offshore offices in EU countries that pay less for software engineers compared to Germany or simply hire agencies. For instance, consider Volkswagen’s struggles with its EV transition. Despite this, they ultimately decided to invest in Rivian to leverage their software.

To create all-purpose robots, we must prioritize both mechanical expertise and software development. However, this mindset problem exists at the top level of management, where senior executives fail to recognize the significance of software, despite the presence of highly skilled software engineers in the country.

Notably, SAP stands out as the only German company that takes software seriously, and it holds the distinction as the largest public company in Germany.

[ofheadit]

I would throw https://www.ableton.com/ into the ring, too. It's small, but absolute on par quality.

[ahartmetz]

Yup, they are good. Personal experience. They are also not the only ones.

[light_hue_1]

That's true of the entire EU. No one cares about software. Just look at the immense salary gap with the US or Canada.

[Gravityloss]

The EU is not homogenic. Some places have excellent software industry. Some software people from Spain like to work in Finland. Pay is better, though not as high as in Silicon Valley. I don't know how well software jobs pay in the rust belt in USA.

[lifestyleguru]

German software is SAP. Every other software from them is made in Poland, Romania, Belarus, and Russia.

[xenonite]

No, SAP is German software. And there are many other software companies in Germany, albeit with much less publicity.

[hobofan]

Half of German software is SAP-infected due to that fact that if you are targeting German companies you have to interface with SAP sooner or later, and every option I've encountered to do that in the past was awful.

[woadwarrior01]

IMO, it's a culture thing. Even German software companies think writing software is low-status and try to outsource as much of it as possible to Eastern Europe.

[ahartmetz]

Not all of them. I'd have more trouble finding work if it was true. By the way, IME Eastern Europe is the best outsourcing destination if you want good quality for somewhat less money. There are not so good companies as well, but the only good "outsourcing code" I have seen was from there.

I think it's really mostly mechanical engineering companies that undervalue software. My main client is one, they actually do value software so it's a decent environment. Unfortunately still rare.

[tobias3]

It's the eastern european development strategy. Have lower taxes on software engineering to grow that industry.

[the_duke]

Eastern European developers are pretty awesome, in my experience.

Otherwise I agree.

[woadwarrior01]

> Eastern European developers are pretty awesome, in my experience.

Absolutely!

nb: I married to one, so I know. :)