[BobaFloutist]

Why do you need to adhere to religion or spirituality in order to establish a framework to live by? Many atheists and agnostics find great meaning and moral guidance from frameworks that at no point involve religion or spirituality.

[wrs]

Well, not according to the author of the post, and we know how concerned he is with truth, so this must be correct? “That leaves us with atheism, which provides us with not the smallest scrap of a foundation on which to build any claims about the purpose of life, or what is a good or bad.” [0]

This is confusingly supported by a quote from C.S. Lewis making the point that it’s better to believe in something that “feels important”, whether or not it’s true.

[0] https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/what-if-none-of-it-is-tru...

[BobaFloutist]

Which is wild, because I'm an atheist and I believe in things that feel important even if I don't necessarily consider them "true" (mostly things about how I should treat other people and that I have agency over my life).

[jimbokun]

Well then your difference with Christianity is only one of degree.

[BobaFloutist]

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. Some of my differences with Christianity are that I believe that morals should come from thought, reasoning, and empathy, not from hierarchy. That I don't think there's an outside supernatural force that's perfect in every way, but also explicitly flawed, that's characterized by infinite love, forgiveness, and benevolence but is less loving and forgiving of "sinners" than I am, and that sets people up to fail that they might suffer forever after.

Accepting that there are things it is useful to believe that are not necessarily literally true actually separates me further from Christianity, since they insist that all their beliefs are literally true, and that doubting such is grounds for eternal torture.

[afpx]

Also, some people have 'religious experiences' that set their minds on certain paths. Whatever the underlying neuroscience is, it results in qualia that is hard to ignore.

I'm a 2nd generation atheist who suffers from depression. Years ago I read evidence that religious practices could alleviate it. I was kind of desperate so decided to brainwash myself into becoming a believer for about a half of a year. Overall, it was pretty effective. I had to eventually disengage because of the cognitive dissonance, but the positive effects have lingered.

[jimbokun]

Most atheists and agnostics struggle greatly to replace the meaning and moral guidance provided by religion.

First and foremost the community aspect. There are countless benefits to being part of an active faith community that atheists have had a very hard time replicating.

[podunkPDX]

Uh… no?

I replicate my community where I find it. Some of it is at a brunch spot I go to regularly. Some of it is a bar that I frequent. Some of it is in annual activities with my neighbors.

I don’t need to believe in a made up Sky Daddy to be a good person, I have plenty of examples in my communities.