[is74]

A person that is against patents will make no societal difference whatsoever by abstaining from them, while hurting their bottom line, so it is not worthwhile. The best way of changing patent law is by lobbying the government. Individual personal efforts of avoiding patents will be completely inconsequential.

[KirinDave]

> Individual personal efforts of avoiding patents will be completely inconsequential.

Were every software engineer to do what I do, there would be far fewer spurious patents.

"Individual personal efforts of avoiding patents will be completely inconsequential," is the worst sort of abrogation of personal responsibility.

[philh]

Right now we have some number of people who wish software patents did not exist but hold them anyway. And we have some number of people who are happy that software patents exist.

My guess is the second set are causing all the problems, and that even if everybody in the first set decided to give up their competitive advantage based on their principles, the world would not be a significantly better place.

[ZeroGravitas]

What about the set of people/corporations who are happy that they legally own the rights to patents granted on the basis of the intellectual work of people who wish software patents did not exist?

[is74]

It is completely irrelevant how the world would be if everyone did X, since it will never happen. The only benefit of not using patents is a righteous feeling.

It would be much better if everyone who choose to not use patents would instead use patents to earn more money, and use this extra money to lobby their governments to change the laws. It will have a drastically higher ROI.

[jongraehl]

The concept of obtaining money wherever your comparative advantage lies (even if that has negative externalities), rather than working in a less efficient feel-good occupation (peace corp etc), and then doing more good with the money than you ever could have in the soup kitchen, is the acme of rationality. See Bill Gates.*

* obviously in some cases the claims of charity don't measure up to the damage done making the money. I think Bill Gates happens to be winning, but that's not the point.

(shame on whoever downvoted is74. It's fine if working in a soup kitchen makes you happier. You don't have to feel threatened by a suggestion that you should consider alternatives, if you're capable of making lots of money)

[KirinDave]

I would agree it is rational, if most people who try to make a lot of money via said "negative externalities" succeed and then become philanthropists of note.

Very few people succeed to the degree that Bill Gates has. Fewer still put their money to the good uses Bill and Melinda have been espousing. So while it is possible to end up with a positive outcome, these outcomes represent a minority.

So no, it's not particularly rational. It sort of assumes you can guarantee things you have very little control over.

[jongraehl]

You don't have to guarantee anything in order to make the consequentialist-rational choice in the face of uncertainty. You just approximately weigh the expected outcomes.

You can't seriously argue that the consequences of creating+controlling a software patent (while advocating against software patents) are always net negative. All you have is your "if we all did our part" Kantian argument, which I respect, but decline to follow.

[KirinDave]

> You can't seriously argue that the consequences of creating+controlling a software patent (while advocating against software patents) are always net negative

I actually don't argue against "all software patents." Truly novel work should be patented. But Software patents should be explicitly enumerated, their definition of "obviousness" refined for the field, and their duration shorted substantially (5 years?).

For example, the software and hardware that went into FingerWork's TouchStream keyboards (which Apple bought, btw) was excellent, novel work. They advanced the state of the art as they produced a product, and they deserved to be rewarded for that risk and innovation.

The problem is not the existence of patents. The problem is the lack of a clear definition for software patents and the abuse this void is suffering.

And I was specifically arguing against the idea that Bill Gates is an existence proof for abusing society for personal gain being justified by potential future good. Not only is that outcome rare, but Bill Gates has been demonized far more than his personal actions deserve.

[ricardobeat]

Ok, why don't we skip the next elections then? Just lobby for your candidate and let the government decide.

[KirinDave]

> It is completely irrelevant how the world would be if everyone did X, since it will never happen.

"And that, my boy, is why your fancy horseless carriage will never succeed."

[ktizo]

That is surely dependent on what they choose not to patent. If they choose not to patent a new variety of floral hat, then there is unlikely to be much societal effect when compared to choosing to patent the hat. However if they discover a method for turning bullshit into an unlimited fuel source or something, then there would be massive social implications in whether the inventor chooses to patent or not.