[cooper_ganglia]

You cannot reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.

Politicians lie, constantly. All of them. Yes, even the ones you like. Saying Republicans lie and Democrats don't is practically self-propagandizing, convincing oneself of something they'd prefer to be true.

ALL politicians are equal-opportunity liars: if there's an opportunity, they will lie. Sometimes for power, sometimes for money, sometimes because they owe a favor. It's a big club, and we aren't in it.

[ben_w]

> Politicians lie, constantly. All of them. Yes, even the ones you like. Saying Republicans lie and Democrats don't is practically self-propagandizing, convincing oneself of something they'd prefer to be true.

> ALL politicians are equal-opportunity liars: if there's an opportunity, they will lie. Sometimes for power, sometimes for money, sometimes because they owe a favor. It's a big club, and we aren't in it.

If you genuinely believe this, how do you determine which way to vote?

It's not like you can call a particular set of politicians (country or party) pathological liars and then take seriously election promises from any member of that set.

[cooper_ganglia]

I vote for those who lie to me the most convincingly about having my family's best interest at heart, and who claim to have goals for the country that align with my values.

That's about the best any of us can do.

[ben_w]

Well, it's coherent I guess. But you are just selecting for being convincing. Why not try to decide what you think each candidate will actually do, rather than caring about what they say, when you describe their lack of honesty in terms I would reserve for just the worst of them?

(Considering where I grew up, "the worst of them" would mainly be Boris Johnson: even if I don't like many of the other better-known UK politicians, they at least seem to say things that reflect their actual value systems, whereas Johnson… https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-what-di...).