[machinekob]

If someone is interested in Byzantium fall and why this war was so bad for both empires, read some more about Justinian's Plague which killed ~35-50% of population and also halved economical output. It took about 200 years to get to the same place population wise for most of the empire.

Weirdly it didn't hit Persia as much outside of Mesopotamia, most historians estimate "only" ~20-30% of population died and shifted balance of power to Persian side, from almost renewed Roman Empire at 540 which most likely was getting back to ruling mediterranean world once again.

[bwanab]

It should be noted, though, that by the time of Basil II in the 900s, the Eastern Roman Empire (aka Byzantium - a name neither they nor anyone else uses until the 19th century) had again become the most powerful military actor in the western world.

[fakedang]

And then they got rekt in Manzikert, 1071 AD. 46 years after Basil II's death.

Let's not kid ourselves, the Byzantines had far more underlying problems throughout its history and only mostly survived by a.) the walls of Theodosius, and b.) bribing away potential invaders and getting others to fight their wars.

[wqaatwt]

Generally battles like Manzikert or similar events were only as disastrous because they were inevitably followed by internal chaos and civil wars.

The free for all nature of the succession meant that whenever the empire was facing major difficulties (i.e. because the emperor was incompetent or due to factors he couldn’t really control) every general or noble within the eyesight of the throne thought that he should have it.

Turkish gains after Manzikert itself were limited and much of the imperial army survived. Of course it marched straight back to Constantinople for its commander to appoint a new emperor (since Romanos IV was captured by the Turks).

Then the Romans kept fighting each other for years while entire Anatolia was gradually lost.

Manzikert was a disaster but they certainly had enough resources to bounce back (i.e. it was certainly not worse than Cannea)

1204 also started as coup attempt by the Venetians to put the son of a former overthrown emperor on the thrown.

[camelCaser]

Exactly! Manzikert was barely a disaster in terms of numbers. Half of Romanos's army was not even on the field. They simply didn't come to his aid, most likely because they were led by a Doukas who wanted one of their own on the throne.

Byzantine history is full of such examples. Civil wars that last decades, never-ending internal strife, and the ever present threat from steppe tribes and caliphates. It's a wonder they survived as long as they did.

[fakedang]

That's precisely what I meant by underlying problems. New emperor? Let's revolt. Emperor captured? Free for all king of the hill. Old emperor returns? Let's blind him, imprison him, and then free for all king of the hill.

[bwanab]

Yes, Basil II had the unfortunate legacy of not leaving an heir at a very bad time. The Romans of the Eastern Empire had their problems but mostly just a continuation of the old Empire: dynastic jealousy and external enemies. As enfeebled as their last 300 years were, they were pretty unique in having lasted almost 2 millennium.

[falaki]

Late Mary Boyce attributes lower outbreaks of pandemics among Zoroastrian communities to the strict purity laws and practices. For example, it was unacceptable to pollute water, considered one of the sacred creations of Ahuramazda. To avoid polluting water, Zoroastrians would not wash their hands directly in rivers or bodies of water. There are hundreds of examples of these strict purity laws. [1]

[1] A History of Zoroastrianism, The Early Period by Mary Boyce <https://archive.org/details/AHistoryOfZoroastrianismVolI>

[segasaturn]

The Plague of Justinian was also the first recorded major outbreak of bubonic plague. Black death seems to be the pivot-point at a lot of important moments in history.

[murphyslawnbs]

Correct, it was brought in by the troops of Genghis Khan and their marmots which were full of fleas.

[hnu0847]

Are there any specific sources you would recommend?