[mrtksn]

Illegal immigration is a BS term, make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants. It's not like people choose the hard, dangerous and expensive ways instead of buying a Ryanair ticket. When the illegal immigrants BS doesn't hold they all start complaining about legal immigrants as with the UK and their core Brexit reason.

[CamouflagedKiwi]

That's a ridiculous way of thinking about it. Anyone who says they don't want illegal immigrants isn't objecting simply because of the legal status, they think the process should be upheld which prevented those people from immigrating legally.

It's the same reason we don't seek to improve crime rates by legalising theft. Sure, there'd be fewer people labelled as "criminal", but the original problem would remain (and in all probability would become worse).

[mrtksn]

And why the process of immigrating legally is more than buying a ticket and a security check at the border?

Obviously, it is the reason that matters and the reason is not benign.

People want other people to like people in certain way they and then castrate Alan Turing for illegal love. People want to have slaves then they have illegally free slaves problem.

Why pretend that this is about upholding the law?

[piltdownman]

Well no, its not. Specifically in relation to Asylum Seekers contravening the EU Dublin Regulation and tearing up their passports on an intra-EU flight so they can claim Asylum and the associated social welfare in Ireland rather than France or Germany due to our much higher rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

Basically economic migrants - predominately young men from the middle east - disguising themselves as Refugees and taking social supports away from the families fleeing warzones.

[mrtksn]

That is one subset of immigration crime that is rightly frown upon and can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders concept that was introduced in the last 100 years or less. Want to help people in need? Instead of confining them into areas and then impose restriction on those and give some of them some money, help those in need. Or don't help, but at least don't pretend that you are bringing justice to the world without addressing the core problems.

In other words, this is actually welfare fraud that happens to have a travel component.

[Cumpiler69]

>can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders

Home break-ins can be avoided by abolishing locks on your front door and leaving them open for the public. You go first please.

[mrtksn]

I won’t reply to this strawman argument.

[Cumpiler69]

It's the same champaign socialist argumentation you are using, just that it's not affecting you, but when it does affect you, you have no argument.

The question was simple, why do you support illegal immigration in a country's borders as being OK, but not crossing in the borders of your house?

It's easy to be virtuous and generous with other people's money/resources.

[mrtksn]

I don't support illegal immigration, I say that people traveling and seeking better lives should not be illegal.

I think we are done here since I don't feel spending time for positions I never claimed. I despise this type of argumentation, its a known fallacy and its useless.

You can count yourself as won an arguments if you feel like that.

[robertlagrant]

> make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants

As a philosophy of law point, aren't laws passed to make things illegal if they aren't wanted? Rather than legal?

[mrtksn]

That's the point, illegal immigration is just a veil so some people can feel better for them selves.

"it's not that I don't like them - I am not like that, its just that I don't want illegal immigration"

[robertlagrant]

I can understand this might make sense if race (or ethnicity) were the only factor in the world to consider, but since it's not, is there value in thinking as though it is?

[mrtksn]

What makes me think that it's about race(loosely speaking. IMHO it's more about xenophobia and feeling like losing privilege o identity as a nation etc) is that once you make the immigration legal they start complaining about numbers like in Britain.

BTW I don't disagree with the people who don't want everyone be welcome, I just think that their solution ideas and demands are misguided. My observation is that people from various ethnicities can function in cohesion and are about the same when they are from a similar educational background and rarely have ethnical or racial issues among themselves and IMHO all the problems will be resolved if you let people naturally find their appropriate group they belong to instead of having BS like country borders and visas and DEI or race based positive discrimination etc.

[robertlagrant]

Thanks for your reply. I think I agree with at least some of it, but it is still solely talking about race.

The worries people have, especially in somewhere like Britain, is it's a country with a relatively small population compared to the level of immigration, and housing is an enormous problem. One outcome that I think can be to a considerable extent[0] attributed to high net immigration is that housing has become smaller (many houses divided into flats), and housing has become much more expensive. So anyone who already owned a house is sitting fairly pretty, as they get bouyed up by the housing market, but anyone looking to buy for the first time, or buy into a new market for the first time (e.g. moving to near schools for kids) is going to have a massive problem, as the competitive pressure has up-bidded housing and made it worthwhile to subdivide and sell/rent smaller dwellings.

This could be all white people doing it (somewhere like Cornwall in the UK is mostly annoyed because other Brits buy holiday homes there, driving up prices for locals and their kids who are coming up) - it doesn't matter. The housing costs are what matter. And they, a bit like fuel, drive up everything else: NHS workers need higher salaries to just be able to live in many places, which drives up taxes.

This isn't to avoid actual race/ethnicity-related tensions. But there's a giant clump of people who are just fed up with their money going far less far than their parents' and grandparents' money did when it comes to one of the fundamentals of life: housing yourself and your family. And their parents and grandparents are equally upset that their kids/grandkids have in a major sense a harder life than they did.

[0] definitely not fully; there are multiple factors. But if you net import the equivalent of the population of Liverpool each year, and you aren't building a Liverpool each your to house them, it's obvious that prices will start shooting up.

[rangestransform]

It is within the right of every nation to determine who comes in and who doesn’t, by lethal force if necessary

[worthless-trash]

Immigration is legal though, in most countries.