[monero-xmr]

It’s exhausting trying to explain this to American leftists. They believe the UK / EU is rich, their healthcare is amazing and “free”, and no one has to work more than 35 hours a week. They visit London and Paris once in 10 years for vacation and think they understand the economic order.

[riffraff]

Both things can be true: I am happy with the European welfare state and still think there are structural problems.

UK and EU are rich, even if their economy is not doing great.

[alecco]

European corporations and political class are rich and benefit from high GDP stimulated by mass migration and foreign funds cornering the housing market.

But European salaries are stagnating and job security is dropping like a stone, while the cost of living is steadily rising. And public healthcare is getting terrible with months of wait for an appointment.

Spain is now used as example of a growing economy in EU but youth unemployment is high and rising and wages are peanuts compared to housing. A lot of native Spanish kids are just checking out. I guess the Spanish corporations and foreign investors are having a blast. And the boomers with their fat pensions and renting their real estate portfolio.

Of note, the same is happening even in China. I feel really bad for Gen Z.

[riffraff]

Spain's youth unemployment halved in ten years from 57%+ to 26%.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Spain#....

Yes, cost of living got worse. This does not in any way make the EU poor.

[constantcrying]

American leftist discourse about Europe is always hilarious. Apparently someone forgot to tell them that the "free" healthcare just means that it is forcibly deducted from your pay and only "free" if you don't work (Free meaning the people who work pay for you). Also they forget to mention that the actual health care system is chronically understaffed and that you should avoid the hospital if at all possible and that you might wait months to see a specialist.

Car discourse is another very good one. Apparently Europeans just really hate cars and take bikes/busses everywhere. They seem to genuinely believe that the US is the only country in the world with a car culture.

[James_K]

You should understand that the American situation is, in fact, much worse than ours in many ways. For instance, the average American pays a 40% tax rate compared to our 25% once you account for healthcare.

[monero-xmr]

The majority of Americans pay 0% tax. They get free healthcare via Medicaid or Obamacare, and get refunded any taxes paid by the EITC.

The richest Americans pay an outsized amount of taxes.

The upper middle class pays a very low tax rate. If your family income is less than $500,000 per year, your blended tax rate will be around 35%.

Europeans do pay taxes for their healthcare. You can't "hide" the taxes Europeans pay, that is illogical

[CalRobert]

Ah yes, my fabulous Dutch healthcare basically consisting of being told "you're fine" and overpriced acetaminophen.

[makingstuffs]

Sounds like the non-existent British NHS where getting an appointment to see a doctor is about as likely as meeting the Loch Ness Monster for a spot of tea and crumpets.

[CalRobert]

Ironically when we were living in Ireland and my daughter was going to have to wait 16 months to get a suspicious growth checked for cancer it was the UK that made it possible for us to go to a private clinic near Belfast and have her checked in a week. And it still wasn't even expensive. Free healthcare isn't actually free if you die waiting.

[amenhotep]

I'm currently being treated by the NHS and they've been excellent, and I got a same day appointment with a doctor last week.

Admittedly I did phone the surgery at 0800 to get it. But this is awful hyperbole.

[defrost]

It used to be the jewel in the crown of empire though.

Thatcher and the more recent 14 years of UK Conservative government seemed to have kicked it bloody and senseless like Alex and his droogs from the Korova Milkbar.

[pjc50]

The NHS and the Empire don't really overlap. It was founded right at the end of the war, shortly before the UK started having to divest from its colonies, and of course it was never a thing in any of the non-UK colonies!

I often think the NHS was only founded as a result of the war, as an extension of the military and civilian healthcare needs for injury care. German bombers didn't respect the British class system.

[alecco]

Only the Conservatives? You think Blair, Brown, and now Starmer did great things for the country? Give me a break. The whole political class is rotten. And the upcoming "Reform UK" is a joke, to say the least.

[defrost]

> You think Blair, Brown, and now Starmer did great things for the country?

No, but apparently you think that I think that. Perhaps you might like to work through that again ...

Leaving the state of the UK as a whole to one side, the NHS was actively kicked like a dog prior to Blair who did at least stop kicking it and attempt to reverse the decline with some, albeit limited, success.

eg: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1871752/

[alecco]

The comment I replied to only places blame on Conservatives. There is a name for this: "lying by omission".

[ta1243]

Certainly not my experience. Phone up for an appointment and get it same day.

Seems to be a postcode lottery

[zelos]

Please don't tell me the grass isn't really greener in the Netherlands. Moving over there (from SE England) is one of my dreams.

[CalRobert]

It’s nice here! My kids can bike to school and not be killed. But the health care is… meh.

[ta1243]

And yet you pay more per capita than the UK