[0x5f3759df-i]

This is exactly it. If China allowed fully uncensored American social media to operate in China I’d had zero issue letting them do the same in the US.

But the CCP wants to have their cake and eat it too. Fully repressive social media lock downs and censorship for their citizens but exploiting the west’s values of free speech and debate.

[TulliusCicero]

To be clear, it's not just that China won't let Western websites operate uncensored as businesses within China targeting the Chinese market.

It's also that people within China can't access the foreign websites and apps (without using a VPN), because China's Internet firewall blocks that access! That's what makes it an incontrovertible ban!

Even if a company has no interest in operating as a business within China in the first place, China may still block the websites and apps. That's a ban no matter how you slice it.

[culi]

On the other hand, the reason these bans are in place have very specific origins. Facebook for example refused to provide Chinese authorities with information on domestic terrorists in 2009. Facebook has never pulled that off in a western country.

Meanwhile TikTok has worked very hard to work with authorities in the US for pretty much any of their demands.

I don't support any of these bans but I don't think its fair to equate these.

[TulliusCicero]

> On the other hand, the reason these bans are in place have very specific origins.

No, they don't.

You think all these sites refused to provide Chinese authorities with legit information? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

What exactly do you think Wikipedia did that was so wrong? Or Voice of America -- that's an American propaganda outlet sure, but I can get to Xinhua (Chinese state media) as an American easily enough, so why not the other way?

In any case, refusing to provide info on domestic terrorists could be a legit case for bannning a company from operating within your country...but what does that have to do with banning everyone residing in your country from being able to access the foreign versions of those websites on foreign servers?

The simple reality is that China is extremely ban-happy when it comes to foreign websites and apps, even for companies that have never tried to operate their business from within China.

[tenuousemphasis]

You've either fallen victim to or are knowingly spreading CCCP propaganda.

[tzs]

China doesn't allow uncensored Chinese social media to operate in China either, so it doesn't really make much sense to say that they should have to allow uncensored American social media in order for Chinese social media companies to operate in the US.

That would be like saying that an Israeli publisher should not be allowed to publish in the US because US publishers cannot publish holocaust denial books in Israel. Or saying that a UAE restaurant should not be allowed to operate in the US because the UAE doesn't Wendy's there to serve the Baconator.

The sensible rule is that X should allow companies from Y to operate in X subject to the same rules that domestic X companies must follow if Y allows X companies to operate in Y if they follow the same rules as domestic Y companies.

[TulliusCicero]

Ah, so because China severely represses their own people, that means outright banning foreign web platforms even when they're hosted on foreign soil isn't really a ban for some reason.

The logic of PRC defenders never ceases to amaze.