[preya2k]

Switching from Google to Proton sounds like picking the lesser of two evils.

If you really want to “degoogle” you should probably go for self-hosting or getting a managed OSS product (e.g. managed Mailcow/Sogo Hosting). Otherwise you’re just switching from one crazy billionaire to another.

https://mastodon.neat.computer/@jonah/113705526672291257

[beretguy]

That’s why I use pigeons and carve my weekly schedule into a stone with a chisel.

[Over2Chars]

Do we really know which crazy billionaire is the lesser of two evils?

We can merely choose between which is the seemingly better known evil.

Self hosting is a way to go. It would be nice if one of those "no code" shops could make it a bit easier or something.

[InsideOutSanta]

FWIW, Proton has no billionnaires, crazy or otherwise. They are governed by a non-profit foundation, though:

https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation

I do agree that self-hosting is best, but particularly for email, that's not trivial.

[Over2Chars]

Supposedly these "no code" sites can stand up a basic infra with very little effort.

If so, have a no code site set up a mail host. It might still not be trivial but it might be much easier?

[eptcyka]

Self hosting is a pain and not sustainable. I self-host, it is cool, but this cannot be the solution. It’d be like everyone going back to farming because walmart can’t be trusted - they cannot but the world will go to hell if everyone has to do everything themselves.

[Over2Chars]

I agree with you, or rather I think the barriers to farming are becoming lower, so maybe we should reconsider that homestead?

If this no-code stuff isn't a bunch of malarkey, it might be lowering the barrier to self-hosting that we've all been waiting for.

And self-hosting of email isn't quite "doing everything", it's doing one or two things.

It would be, to use your analogy, like growing your own tomatoes because Walmart's suck (and they do). Homegrown tomatoes don't have that "red leather" skin, a mysterious past, and may be quite inexpensive.

You can still get your Chinese made shirts, shoes, pants, and other inexpensive Chinese made goods at Walmart. But skip the Tomatoes.

[kookiburra]

I agree, though self hosting can be too hard for everyday non tech users. I think the fact that Proton exists, regardless of all their issues, is still a good thing and a move in the right direction

[Over2Chars]

I am a fan of proton, but we should always be ready for the bad news that forces us into another provider or self-hosting. Sooner or later it always happens.

Like lavabit or anon-penet.fi, cases where things go tits up for non-provider related reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penet_remailer

[kookiburra]

By the way, I wrote this article just last week - https://ownerofhappy.org/encrypted-email-bad

I actually agree, and personally I don't love how they advertise such foolproof security. It's dangerous especially when their non technical users don't understand the consequences. I've had multiple friends using Proton who think it's 100% private even when emailing a gmail user.

[Over2Chars]

I remember reading someone talking about how Proton couldn't be that secure (ultimately) because they relied on a javascript front end.

I recalled this when I read some crypto security efforts were focused on removing any javascript dependencies. I was like... hmmmm.....