[newbie578]

It is so disheartening to see Europe's tech industry flounder so much. Living in Europe and then seeing how the salary gap with the USA is just increasing is flat out demoralising. However I do not see a way out until salaries start increasing.

[hk1337]

From what I understand, a lot of the pay gap is the result of European workers getting more things taken care of that are not tied to their employer or employment. i.e. healthcare

The salary is less than U.S. but their actual take home pay may be more.

[syndicatedjelly]

    The salary is less than U.S. but their actual take home pay may be more.

Unless the social services in Europe are worth $50-100k/year more than in America there is just no way this is true. That’s around $4-8k/month. I’d expect transit and public attractions to be free across Europe at that price (they’re not). Healthcare is another matter…do Europeans feels like they get $50k+ of healthcare coverage a year on average? That would be about $4 million in a lifetime

A comment earlier said that the average senior software engineer salary at a large UK firm was 62k pounds per year. Even adjusting for PPP that’s about half of what a senior swe in a MCOL city in America can expect to make.

Also, contrary to popular belief, we have health insurance in America, with max deductibles. As in, after a certain amount (usually in the 4 digits), all healthcare costs are covered by insurance

[throw3423624356]

The high-earning individual might not get the 50k-100k USD/year back directly, but it supports a social safety net where people dying of cancer et al do not have to resort to GoFundMe campaigns. It also supports infrastructure and sociatal building with reduced influence of private companies acting as gatekeepers for individual participation.

To me, that is worth the taxation even I myself (probably) will never have to use most of the safety net.

[syndicatedjelly]

Fair, one could say that Europe has better cultural institutions and safety nets, and is overall a nicer place to live (qualitatively and subjectively) than most of the US

[oytis]

Pre-tax salary is lower too though. And health insurance is paid on top of taxes.

[BeetleB]

> The salary is less than U.S. but their actual take home pay may be more.

Simply not true. For example, I have a high deductible plan. I pay no premiums, and my max out of pocket is around $5-6K/year.

So that's the max I'd pay per year for medical expenses for the whole family. Throw in a few more thousand for transportation related expenses. Probably shouldn't even do that as the cost to own a car is generally cheaper in the US than Europe (cars are cheaper, and auto related taxes are lower).

What else?

[sebazzz]

Max out of pocket in The Netherlands at least is 385 euro. That's it.

[BeetleB]

I'm not saying the US system is better. Just pointing out that for SW engineers, the delta in health care costs between the US and Europe doesn't account for the much higher delta in salaries.

[skywal_l]

As long as you're healthy.

[BeetleB]

Nope. It's the max - as long as I stay in network.

[laurencerowe]

I think that's much more true around the median income whereas highly paid professionals tend to get good healthcare paid for by their employer.

I moved from the UK to US a decade ago. Software engineer salaries in the UK are on the 75th percentile of earnings vs the 90th percentile in the US. The US also has higher variance of income, so at the 90th percentile one would earn 2.6x the median salary vs 2.0x in the UK. If you are a highly paid professional the US is a pretty good place to be.

The downside is of course you live in a much more unequal place with all the societal problems that implies. After having a kid we're thinking of moving back to Europe, though whether we can find jobs and visas in the places we'd like to live is an open question. It's a lot more complicated having lost my EU citizenship post Brexit.

[mantas]

Both pre-tax and take-home are lower in europe. Difference is lower than it looks at first sight. But it's still there.

Eastern europe is doing pretty good though. Salaries are very close to western part, but cost of living is waaaay lower.

[oytis]

No, take home is less, and we pay for our healthcare, it's part of mandatory social contributions (on top of taxes, that are normally higher too).

At least in Germany we do have more paid time off though, but I don't think that's enough to offset the salary gap with the US

[Kkoala]

Of course, it depends on your situation, but even taking that into account the gap is usually still quite massive