[EncomLab]

The key to me is the flexibility - I have the option of WFH 2 days per week, but most weeks I'm in the office 5 days (sometimes a half day on Saturday) because I am fortunate to have a "real office" with a door, a nice view, a stocked break area - and no home distractions. If I was still in a cube farm with a barely stocked vending machine (where I spent the vast majority of my career) I'd be using every WFH moment I could get.

The key discussion should not be WFH vs. RTO - it should be why do people hate the office they are expected to return to?

[zeusk]

I'm betting for a large part of the WFH crowd - commute and home prices (near the offices) are the biggest sticking points.

[smcleod]

Commute, noise, lighting, desk setup, open plan offices, hot dealing and generally having to sit in some corporate office rather than my own home. I'm an adult - I'll work where I want and that will never been an office ever again.

[jimbob45]

I’m paying my own commute into the office. I take on the risk of auto travel at the busiest time of the day. I can’t get far enough on my lunch to truly take a break and I can still get fired for actions taken during lunch which makes it more of an unpaid hour. I’m forced to live somewhere the company wants me to live which may be overpriced, crime-ridden, and have terrible schooling.

[galleywest200]

I am not paid for the two hours of sitting in traffic (one hour to work, one hour back). The company does not reimburse for gas, car insurance, vehicle wear and tear, etc. Take the bus? Not sure they pay for bus fare either.

Those are two hours every single week-day that I could use to either do more work for the company or, more realistically, do self-improvement tasks or hobbies.

[estebank]

> Not sure they pay for bus fare either.

A lot of companies have commuter benefits that cover bus fare at a minimum. Sometimes it is "free" money, sometimes it is "pay for your bus pass with pre-tax money".

[kjkjadksj]

It isn’t just the commute. Life is greatly simplified and improved when you can run the dishwasher or throw a load of laundry in during the day. God forbid you want to, you know, visit a business during business hours as well.

Of course management doesn’t like to hear this. They’d rather you stare at a wall when there is nothing in front of you I guess.

[jmspring]

RTO is more than “why do they hate the office they are expected to return to”.

I’ve not had to do this. I’ve been fully remote for over a decade.

If I am hired as remote and then the company changes its policy later requiring me to go in, that is a change of the employment contract. AWS was particularly insidious as people are required to go to the office where the work/team they are part of are assigned to.

[doublerabbit]

3 in, 2 out here but I'm in the office for four days just because I work better in the office.

My one bedroom apartment is my home. Not an office to work in.

Maybe if I had a spare room, but I like the feeling of leaving work at work and coming home not to know I need to work here tomorrow.

[switch007]

> why do people hate the office they are expected to return to?

They hate it because it's designed to be hated. The discomfort is the point. You're meant to know your place and be reminded of it everyday.

[nielsbot]

I'd argue that's a side effect, not an intent... but you never know.

[drjasonharrison]

the intent of creating an office environment that is pleasant to work in is rarely something that employees provide enough input into. I would argue that the side effect of making an office that disrespects some employees perferences is more than a "blind spot", it's a "I don't give a damn"

Examples: - talkative/noisy areas - lighting level - speakerphones/headphones/cellphone conversations - kitchen/ping pong/foosball noises - privacy/divider existence/divider height - personalization - lighting/glare/sunlight/color reproduction - start/stop/break schedule - "cool" versus "comfortable", "public" vs "private" - "corner office" versus "bull pen"

In my new office, I was given the choice to rank my preference from nine desks in a small area (group/team cluster, because "synergy"). I didn't even bother asking if I could sit closer to people I like or identify with (the parents of children at home subgroup).

[switch007]

Every place I worked that has sought feedback threw it in the bin because of "costs" - smiled, nodded, agreed, then ignored.

Many people I've worked with gave a damn but were constantly ignored due to costs. Just my experience