[dwattttt]

I do, but I'm still expecting things to be more complicated than that example.

For instance, this is the the scenario I expect to be harder to manage with exceptions & cleanup:

  this.len += 1;
  foo();
  this.len += 1;
  bar();
  this.len += 1;
  baz();
  return ...;

Without infallibility, you need a separate cleanup scope for each call you make. With this, the change to the private variable is still next to the operation that changes it, you just don't need to manage another control flow at the same time.

EDIT: sorry, had the len's in the wrong spot before

[dataflow]

> I do, but I'm still expecting things to be more complicated than that example.

They're not. I've done this all the time, in the vast majority of cases it's perfectly fine. It sounds like you might not have tried this in practice -- I would recommend giving it a shot before judging it, it's quite an improvement in quality of life once you're used to it.

But in any large codebase you're going to find occasional situations complicated enough to obviate whatever generic solution anyone made for you. In the worst case you'll legitimately need gotos or inline assembly. That's life, nobody says everything has a canned solution. You can't make sweeping arguments about entire coding patterns just because you can come up with the edge cases.

> Without infallibility, you need a separate cleanup scope for each call you make.

So your goal here is to restore the length, and you're assuming everything is infallible (as inadvisable as that often is)? The solution is still pretty darn simple:

  absl::Cleanup _ = [&, old_len = len] { len = old_len; };
  foo();
  this.len += 1;
  bar();
  this.len += 1;
  baz();
  this.len += 1;
  return ...;

No need for a separate cleanup for every increment.

[dwattttt]

We may have to agree to disagree. I'm trying to convey a function that would need a different cleanup to occur after each call if they were to fail, e.g. reducing the len by one (though that is the same here too).

[dataflow]

> We may have to agree to disagree. I'm trying to convey a function that would need a different cleanup to occur after each call if they were to fail, e.g. reducing the len by one (though that is the same here too).

Your parenthetical is kind of my point though. It's rare to need mid-function cleanups that somehow contradict the earlier ones (because logically this often doesn't make sense), and when that is legitimately necessary, those are also fairly trivial to handle in most cases.

I'm happy to just agree to disagree and avoid providing more examples for this so we can lay the discussion to rest, so I'll leave with this: try all of these techniques -- not necessarily at work, but at least on other projects -- for a while and try to get familiar with their limitations (as well as how you'd have to work around them, if/when you encounter them) before you judge which ones are better or worse. Everything I can see mentioned here, I've tried in C++ for a while. This includes the static enforcement of error handling that you mentioned Rust has. (You can get it in C++ too, see [1].) Every technique has its limitations, and I know of some for this, but overall it's pretty decent and kills a lot of birds with one stone, making it worth the occasional cost in those rare scenarios. I can even think of other (stronger!) counterarguments I find more compelling against exceptions than the ones I see cited here, but even then I don't think they warrant avoiding exceptions entirely.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that (a) sweeping generalizations are wrong regardless of the direction they're pointed at, as they often are (this statement itself being an exception), and (b) there's always room for improvement nevertheless, and I look forward to better techniques coming along that are superior to all the ones we've discussed.

[1] https://godbolt.org/z/c9KM6dj95