[iLemming]

Yes, Clojure can be very terse without being extremely cryptic. Even simple data representation, if you compare JSON and EDN - the latter would be almost twice as compact yet remain more readable than JSON. Clojure is not as terse as e.g., Haskell, but I think it wins by being more pragmatic. Of course, some seasoned Haskelites may disagree, in some rare cases, Haskell can prove to be fantastically pragmatic, but let's agree not to go down that rabbit hole of argumentation.

[j45]

That's a nice point, it's not about the shortest or the most verbose code.. maybe where relevant, something one or more people can learn quickly and become productive in contributing value.

With many languages and frameworks having a decent amount of similar functionality and performance available, more and more is left to personal preference and interpretation of what to use.

Popularity might matter when trying to hire juniors. Given how many juniors seem to appreciate sincere mentorship when it's mutual, I'm not super sure on this anymore.

Popularity might not matter when trying to hire other types of developers, including seniors. It's less about what's popular, or the right badge to signal.

Of the polyglot folks I get to know and are humble about their smarts, it's interesting how many independently have ended up on Clojure, or a few others. Universally there's usually a joke of how long can bash scripts do what's needed until a decision has been tied in.

[iLemming]

> Of the polyglot folks I get to know and are humble about their smarts, it's interesting how many independently have ended up on Clojure

Yeah, Clojure is a weird thing. I myself, after using numerous different PLs - ranging from Basic/Pascal/Delphi to .NET languages like C#/F#, then later Python and, of course, "script" options like Javascript, Typescript, Coffeescript, and many others - still never felt like ever obtaining "the polyglot" status. I just went from one language to another, and every time it felt like burning the old clothes. I was always a "Blub programmer" at any given point of my career, every time moving from one "Blub PL" to another.

Learning Clojure somehow renewed my passion for the craft and forced me into deeper understanding of core programming ideas. Ironically, long-abandoned old friends became more familiar than ever before. I don't know exactly how that happened. Either because of the hosted nature of Clojure that forced me to always be on at least two different platforms at the same time - JVM and Javascript - or maybe because it exposed me to a lot of smarter and more experienced people than ever before. Maybe because of "Lisp-weirdness", thinking how to program with "no syntax" or being forced to think in terms of "everything is a function" where you don't even need primitives, even numbers, since you can express just about anything with functions. It could be because Clojure is of sufficiently higher level, it forced me to work on more complicated problems; I really can't say. One thing I know: I was a "Blub" programmer before Clojure. After a few years of Clojure, I have become an "experienced Blub programmer" in the sense that I no longer care in what programming language I need to write, debug, troubleshoot, or build things, with maybe a few exceptions like Haskell, Prolog and Forth - they'd probably require me to put on a student hat again to become productive, even though I know some bits of each.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make this "about me." What I'm trying to say is that I am sad that it took me years of wasted time. I wish someone had truly forced me into learning something like Clojure sooner, but again, maybe learning Haskell would have had the same or even better effect. I just want to encourage young programmers to try different languages instead of obsessing with their favorite ones. "Well," you may say, "aren't you right now fetishizing Clojure?" Here's the thing - I don't really consider Clojure any different from numerous other Lisp dialects I use - for me, all Lisps feel like the same language. The mental overhead of switching between Clojure/nbb/Elisp/Common Lisp/Fennel/etc. is so small, it's not even funny. Even jumping between Typescript and Javascript (same family) is more taxing than switching between different Lisps. Perhaps, true value of Lisps (including Clojure) is not so much technological - maybe it's rather cerebral and epistemic.