[bowsamic]

Ladybird did this because there really is a pressing social need for a free browser outside of the grips of Google. There is no really need for another free (as in freedom) OS. Serenity's existence is purely for pleasure purposes

[throwaway1194]

> Serenity's existence is purely for pleasure purposes

These projects misdirect talented individuals from impactful work.

What's the point, if they ultimately collapse due to the unsustainable nature of solely pleasure-driven endeavors?

This wasted effort is particularly frustrating considering that vital open-source projects, crucial for real-world applications, are struggling to survive due to critical lack of contributors.

It's infuriating to witness this neglect.

[sedatk]

> These projects misdirect talented individuals from impactful work.

My most impactful project was the one that I coded quickly in three hours for fun. It has later turned into the greatest Turkish social platform in the world, is still being used by millions of people every day 26 years after I coded it.

I'm glad that you weren't there as the self-proclaimed arbiter of real impact™ when I started writing it. :)

[throwaway1194]

> I'm glad that you weren't there as the self-proclaimed arbiter of real impact™ when I started writing it. :)

So? I achieved things of my own as well, some of which I'm very proud of, but I don't go online belittling others acting as "holier than thou" to bring my point across, which you apparently do, I doubt you are as important as you claim to be.

[sedatk]

I didn't claim I was important. I might as well be lucky. But, assuming that you're in a position of authority to call people's work a "waste", "neglectful", and calling me "holier than thou" at the same time? Even irony has its limits.

Let me get back to the topic and give you another example that you might relate more: "just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu". If Linus Torvalds had taken his own thoughts on the impact of his work seriously and decided to pursue other "more impactful" whatever he saw at the time as you suggested instead of this pleasure-driven endeavor, Linux would have never happened.

[hakfoo]

Why build a model airplane if you can't fly it to JFK?

Even as a pure hobby project, it has educational value. Being somewhat of a toy with simplifications and limits makes it understandable, but it's comprehensive and engaging enough to justify ongoing effort.

[elzbardico]

I think that a lot of vital open-source projects have a lack of contributors because people originally contributed for the good of the community, but they got tired of increasingly seeing their work being used by mega corporations to fill up their coffers, effectively using open source developers as free labor.

People do stuff out of passion, they eschew leisure time, time with family, they trade opportunities to make money to do open source.

But then, they increasingly see their work being used to enable products that increasingly limit your freedom and/or outright spy on you, become paid cloud offering without you seeing a dime for that, are used to train AI with the overt goal of replacing your labor class and depress wages in one of the last professions where there was still a modicum of social mobility.

In light of that, either you stop contributing, or you make sure to contribute to projects that have absolutely no chance of being used commercially against you. Either that, or start paying for my work.

I am not going to spend my time making Nadela, Bezos and Altman even more rich than what they are now. Fuck that shit.

[cardanome]

> This wasted effort is particularly frustrating considering that vital open-source projects, crucial for real-world applications, are struggling to survive due to critical lack of contributors.

If they are so vital, they should be paid. Those projects are struggling because big tech monopolists and the foundations they control want them to struggle.

The Linux foundation is cutting the budget that they spent on Linux every year both in relative and absolute numbers, currently being at just 2%. Mozilla refuses to allow people to donate money towards browser development and continues to waste money on side-projects.

[gmueckl]

On the contrary, this project creates tremendous value for society because it is a way for people to upskill significantly in areas that would otherwise be very hard to get into. OS development is a domain where it is very hard to gain experience. The big professional OSes have high quality bars and big codebases, making contributing hard and tedious. OS dev without a community of likeminded motivated people that share their experiences is even harder.

[timewizard]

> These projects misdirect talented individuals from impactful work.

You have no evidence of that. You cannot force people to do what you consider to be impactful work. The definition of "impactful" is highly subjective.

> What's the point, if they ultimately collapse due to the unsustainable nature of solely pleasure-driven endeavors?

You presume it's solely about pleasure. Some people find gaining knowledge and learning to work with their own two hands pleasurable. Are their endeavors transitively unsustainable because of this?

> that vital open-source projects, crucial for real-world applications, are struggling to survive due to critical lack of contributors

The work to produce vital and crucial things should be paid. It's particularly frustrating to see people expect to not only demand they control the work of others but that they also do so without having to pay a single cent.

> It's infuriating to witness this neglect.

I finally find myself in agreement with you.

[bowsamic]

So you think all leisure is immoral?

[LeFantome]

With some trepidation to attracting the kinds of attacks you made on others below, saying that recreation "misdirect talented individuals from impactful work" is not a stance I hope most people reading this will agree with.

Do you truly believe that EVERYTHING you do with your time is impactful? If it is not, would you be totally ok to be attacked by somebody that is "infuriated" by your "wasted effort"?

As for SerenityOS and Ladybird, I suspect that just the YouTube series surrounding them alone have had more positive impact on the world than the two of us combined. Suspicion is not an assertion of course.