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by whyleyc 520 days ago
The video is wild - Waymo support apparently struggles to remotely control the car.
3 comments

these things need to have a giant E-STOP button accessible to the passengers

otherwise they should simply be banned

Absolutely not. While that might sound like a safety feature it can also be extremely unsafe.

Imagine letting a passenger in a car use the e-brake at any time.

It's a tricky problem.

> Imagine letting a passenger in a car use the e-brake at any time.

Alright, I'm imagining. Seems extremely sensible, especially in an AI-operated vehicle.

Much of the world (the US being an outlier) puts passenger-facing emergency breaks in every carriage of passenger trains.

Buses and trains already have publicly usable e-stops. Hell, English ones even have them on the OUTSIDE of the bus.

Clearly autonomous vehicles need e-stops, like all automated machines.

they tried that. in an emergency they just stopped. the problem was they were stopping in the middle traffic and in the middle of intersections, so it's now an pull over button. or just open the door.
I expressed this exact same concern a couple months ago (and was downvoted, a common theme w/ Google fanbois nowadays):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42117343

From @simonw back then,

>Yes, there's a "pullover now" button on the dashboard at all times.

Well, doesn't seem to be the case here.

The pull over button is in fact on the screen.

According to his spokesperson, he wasn't aware of it.

the button is giant and blue and impossible to miss and you can see from the video it isn't on the screen. the screen in the video is mostly brown with a sliver of blue on the side.
Realistically, how much can she do from a cubicle in the Philippines?

Maybe driverless cars should have remained a relic of 80s Schwarzenegger movies.

I guess the only option they have is "pull over" which in this case just caused the car to continue circling looking for a safe place to pull over. If they had an actual kill switch, we'd probably be watching another video of some guy on a call to waymo support while stuck in the middle of a highway.
> If they had an actual kill switch

I'm unfamiliar - we have these in train cars, did the architects behind driverless techshit not think it was necessary?

To be clear, I'm talking specifically about the first line of support at Waymo here. I am not precluding that they have higher levels of control behind layers of authorisation.
Train cars? As in the vehicle on a track where an immediate stop is almost never more dangerous?
Yes, in much of the world there are mandatory passenger-facing emergency break levers in every carriage of passenger trains. The US is the outlier here.

And yes, passengers should absolutely be able to bring their vehicle to an immediate stop. It's an "emergency break"! Of course you need an emergency break in an autonomous car! What exact alternative are you proposing for when you're in an AI-operated car hurtling under the chassis of a white truck that it failed to detect in snow conditions?

It seems like an incredibly obvious and basic legislative requirement for self-driving cars to have some kind of immediate manual break for emergencies. I'm kind of shocked that that apparently isn't the case now?

I didn't say pull the hand brake at 60mph.

There should be an emergency "pull over and stop gracefully" button.

They do. I'm guessing there was a bug in finding a place to safely pull over?
Sounds likely, in which case there needs to be a much more "break glass in case of emergency" control which gradually lowers the maximum speed cap of the vehicle.

So even if the vision/pathfinding believes there is nowhere to park and nowhere else to turn, it will still coast to a stop in a way that is not inherently less-safe than a more-normal car running out of gas and stalling on the road.

If they can remotely kill the engine of any Waymo car in motion, so can hackers.
If they can't secure it, then the entire project should be scrapped.

But GM already has this capability with OnStar. Stolen vehicles can be slowed down then stopped and and disabled remotely.