[whoitwas]

In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual.

In prison and jail inmates work for rates like $.25 an hour. Many places in the south prison inmates are contracted out to work minimum wage jobs and denied parole.

Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release.

There are private prisons that benefit from more prisoners. In many places the jail or prison is the largest and best employer.

... .. . You can go on forever. It's maybe getting better in some places, but not where they used to have slavery.

[nyolfen]

> In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual.

and human rights are derived from feudal rights. okay, and? is this just supposed to make you feel bad with scary words?

> Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release.

this sounds very much like you are mixing up cause and effect. is it surprising that someone who commits more serious crimes is more likely to commit further crimes?

[defrost]

"Crims are going to crim again" is likely the shallowest take possible in such discussions.

What's relevant here is comparing different prison systems wrt Recidivism.

eg: Nine out of 10 South African criminals reoffend, while in Finland it’s 1 in 3. This is why

https://theconversation.com/nine-out-of-10-south-african-cri...

[DAGdug]

Did you click through to glance through the paper linked? I was hoping the author would posit a causal model, adjust for a few different factors, and have something robust. Nope, nothing - just a wall of text even quoting Derrida. Empiricism is slowly dying, in large part due to truth seeking becoming subservient to confirmation bias.

[defrost]

> Did you click through to glance through the paper linked?

Yes.

> I was hoping the author would posit a causal model, adjust for a few different factors, and have something robust.

They did to a degree.

> Nope, nothing

Perhaps you might click through and read again.

> just a wall of text

A "wall of text" is something, this one was broken up with paragraphs and had a number of observations regarding systems in two countries and quotes from people in several countries.

> even quoting Derrida.

Would you be kind enough to quote the "quote", Ctrl-F Derrida returns zilch, and expand on why that particular quote offends you?

> Empiricism is slowly dying, in large part due to truth seeking becoming subservient to confirmation bias.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana

[DAGdug]

> They did to a degree

Where? I’m fairly facile with causal inference; this is the crudest observational “study” without even qualitative heuristics to make the comparisons apples-to-apples.

> and expand on why that particular quote offends you?

Generic low tolerance for high V, low M academics: https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/06/high-v-low-m.html?m=1

This is the paper he links to, where you can find references to Derrida: https://unisapressjournals.co.za/index.php/Phronimon/article...

Anyway, if this is the kind of nonsense that convinces you, I don’t intent to continue this discussion. We have very different notions of what qualifies as evidence.

[whoitwas]

I'm sorry if words scare you. The prison system is a direct continuation of slavery in the US. I'm not sure what you're analogy attempts to prove.

My point on recidivism is that US jails focus on punitive rather than rehabilitative justice.

[nyolfen]

there is no such thing as rehabilitative justice, which is just secularized christian theology of redemption; there is only keeping dangerous or destructive people away from the rest of us. if they manage to reform themselves all the better, but the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions. the thing that actually brought crime down after its tremendous mid-century spike is mass incarceration, ie taking the pareto tail out of circulation

[whoitwas]

I don't think you're familiar with the topic. Nearly every single person who goes to jail will be released and may become your neighbor. I suggest you research the subject instead of pulling anecdotes from your ass.

" the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions"

This is the exact problem that fuels mass incarceration and costs us tax payers and society infinite sums. In some places, even in Texas this model has been rejected because it's more expensive for tax payers to jail everyone.

Let's spell it out for the obstinate:

Jails have incentive to fill beds.

Jails have incentive to not rehabilitate.

Inmates go to jail and become worse because they're in a bad place.

Inmates are released with hostile support (probation).

Jail bed gets filled.

....

[nyolfen]

"schools have incentive to fill desks. schools have incentive to not educate. students go to school and become worse because they're in a bad place"

[whoitwas]

It's an interesting suggestion, but not a good analogy. In many areas schools actually begin the prison pipeline. Children don't stay in school longer or continually cycle in and out. In poor areas they go to jail.

It's clear you hate people. Most people in jail haven't even been convicted of a crime. Nearly all plea, and rarely any go to trial.