[Brybry]

To add to sibling comments about the 13th amendment's exception clause (which is what legally allows forced prison labor[1]): forced prison labor has been a state-level ballot issue in recent years.

Colorado voted to abolish slavery and involuntary servitude as punishment for crime in 2018 (though enforcement is reportedly poor). [2][3]

In other states voters have upheld forced labor[4] but sometimes it's because of issues with how it's worded[5].

You can argue it's involuntary servitude instead of slavery but to most people that's a meaningless distinction. Especially while they are being beaten for not working.[6]

[1] https://action.aclu.org/send-message/congress-end-forced-lab...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2018/11/07/665295736/colorado-votes-to-a...

[3] https://www.npr.org/2023/11/13/1210564359/slavery-prison-for...

[4] https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2024/11/california...

[5] https://lailluminator.com/2022/11/17/the-story-behind-why-lo...

[6] https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...

[jgalt212]

> You can argue it's involuntary servitude instead of slavery but to most people that's a meaningless distinction.

The purchase and sale of humans, or the lack of such transactions is a meaningless distinction?

[bdangubic]

The purchase and sale of humans, or the lack of such transactions is a meaningless distinction?

by which definition of slavery do we have “purchase and sale of humans” as part of that definition?!

Article 1(1) of the 1926 Slavery Convention: “Slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised.”

just because you are not purchased/sold does not mean your condition cannot be defined as slavery

[quesera]

> by which definition of slavery

"Chattel slavery".

[Brybry]

Yes, it's my opinion that it's meaningless pedantry to argue involuntary servitude is not included in the definition of slavery when used in casual speech on a forum.

I don't believe there's a need to soften language to attempt to weaken the narrative of a "prison slavery system". If one is a proponent of forced labor for convicts then just say so: plenty of people will agree (and plenty will disagree).

[jgalt212]

Reminds me of the progressives trying to say words are violent just like fists, knives, and bullets are. But we're all vibes these days, and no science or empiricism.

[jfengel]

Given the for-profit prisons, it comes very close to being the purchase and sale of humans.

It's not full chattel slavery such as was legal before the 13th Amendment, but the word "slavery" has always encompassed definitions short of that, e.g. in ancient Rome.

[_DeadFred_]

Prisons routinely lease out prison labor.