[fiforpg]

Annnd, this is exactly how humanity figured out astronomy before the telescopes: by taking multi-year observations and keeping detailed records! See Antikythera mechanism, Tycho Brahe, etc. Arguably the entire Greek epistemology was so solid because their astronomy turned out to be an early proving ground for the scientific method.

[dylan604]

This is something I mention to the younger kids at start parties. Way back then, there was no internet, no devices, no tv, no radio, no movies, and more importantly no easily accessible calendars. You couldn't help but look up at the night sky. There was really nothing else to do, and when the only thing available to know when to plant and harvest was based on the constellations visible at the time. It helps put things into a way that helps them think about it even if they can't quite comprehend not having devices.

[crazygringo]

> There was really nothing else to do

Well, nothing to do except for storytelling, music, dancing, parties, games, plays, sports, eating, drinking, visiting, festivals, gossip...

People have been pretty good at keeping themselves entertained for a very long time.

[arduinomancer]

Obviously OP didn’t mean literally nothing else to do

[crazygringo]

The reason I bothered to respond is that there is a common tendency to look back at historical people and see them as extremely primitive -- with little knowledge, with little entertainment, with little going on. That they would have had nothing better to do than to look at the sky.

And that's what I'm pushing back on. No, that's just not true. Obviously some people were interested in the sky, and it was a tool for certain things, but OP literally said "There was really nothing else to do." That's a complete misunderstanding of human society in history. And it's important we don't reduce our ancestors to these primitive stereotypes.

It's also important to push back on the idea that there were no distractions. OP says "no internet, no devices, no tv..." but there was extensive village gossip, games, stories... fundamentally we had all the same kind of distractions. We're a lot more similar than OP thinks.

[dylan604]

You're now assuming that I'm a bumbling idiot that thinks everyone before electricity were neanderthal cavemen. Although, I've met plenty of modern people that couldn't hold a flame to a caveman.

The fact that the ancients knew the coming of the seasons and developed their entire society based on what was visible in the heavens just shows how much they did pay attention to it.

There's a thing in story telling called hyperbole. It helps enhance the story by bending the truth just a bit to make the story more interesting and helps get a point across. It is especially useful in oral story telling.

But clearly, we're all bumbling idiots for not getting the minute details exactly right. Good to know. I'm glad you're so intelligent that you've set me straight

[globular-toast]

I guess he meant there was nothing else for nerds to do...

[dylan604]

And exactly how does that help the specific narrative?

[crazygringo]

You were writing as if people were staring at the sky all night long out of boredom. You said "There was really nothing else to do."

That's completely untrue. It's a total misunderstanding of what life was like.

I'm not helping your narrative, I'm saying it's a false narrative. We have so many misunderstandings about how people used to live, it's important not to perpetuate them.

[dylan604]

Everything you listed as options to do are also available now, yet people still choose to stay home and look at their devices. Pedantry for pedantry sake is just boring

[crazygringo]

> Everything you listed as options to do are also available now

That has no bearing on anything you or I said.

> Pedantry for pedantry sake is just boring

Perhaps you don't understand what pedantry is? Your entire point was a false description of what humanity was like. Just take this as a learning experience! :)

[morsch]

Like the sibling, I don't think people had trouble entertaining and distracting themselves. But there was no electrical light, and much less artificial lighting overall. Evenings and nights were dark. I'm sure many a walk home after a gathering was lit only by the night sky.

Meanwhile, I can see the moon and like ten stars on a typical night, because I live in a city and there is massive ambient light at night.

[dylan604]

I initially had something referencing light pollution, but felt it wasn't as relevant to the point and took it out. When talking to kids, giving them the whole nine yards at every opportunity is overwhelming. Giving them just enough to get the point across is much more effective. Explain once without over explaining, demonstrate, and then let them experience it. Never been a teacher, but it works as a coaching technique that translates well in other areas. Giving too much info that's not relevant verges on mansplaining IMO.