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by PaulHoule 530 days ago
How about this distinction.

There are some things where the "lean startup" applies. For instance if you made an Ebay or AirBNB or Reddit or Substack kind of a site you could get a rough prototype running quickly. The software is maybe 20% of the effort, but 80% of the effort is in business development (recruiting people to kickstart the market)

Some products on the other hand take years of development and may or may not work. Golden Rice, Falcon 9, the LLVM-based C compiler are all examples.

I worked on a system which was uncomfortably in between these models. On one hand were developing LLM-like systems before LLMs as we know them were available so we could have spent a few years on development. However we could sell projects to customers which caused us to zig and zag a lot to meet their needs. That was a good thing because we learned a lot about what was possible (it contributes to the research) but we wasted a lot of time with spoiled work in progress, etc.

In our case I think the investors believed in our vision but were skeptical about our ability to execute (rightly so: I couldn't even get the data scientists to use a standard version of Python even though that was what I got hired for) and would bring in consultants that were often counterproductive (zigging and zagging to meet customer needs meets customer needs but spending weeks writing up OKRs is busywork.)

I believed in the story more than anyone but the C-levels because I had been working on a similar thing on my own account. I'd tell people when it was tough that if our product was sufficiently realized it would be worth it for one of our customers to buy us. I thought it would be a Big 5 accounting firm or an airplane manufacturer but it turned out to be a major consumer brand.

That's honorable and probably paid the VCs back what they put in, but had we had the funding to develop technology for a few years and enough contact with applications to know what direction to go in, switched to transformer models the moment BERT came out, and if we were more disciplined about our streaming engine so it always gave the right answers (wrote down what the algebra was for it rather than argue about whether we should call it an algebra) we could have changed the world.

1 comments

Interesting examples. Personally, I don't really consider Ebay, AirBnB, Reddit, or Substack to be "technology companies". They are businesses that happen to be online, imo. I'm sure that e.g. AirBnB has lots of machine learning technology now, but I reckon it's doing niche stuff like optimizing conversion rates and profits by customer tracking, recommending, etc. So basically, after-the-fact value optimization. Nothing really invented or new created, aside from their novel ideas and unique executions.

Other actual tech examples seem to fall into 1 of 2 camps: obvious but hard to do (better search engine, better rockets, electric cars, etc), or cool but non-obvious customer end uses (maybe LLMs, VR/AR, curved or flexible high def screens, etc). The latter category has more risk but probably lower hanging fruit to get started, because the market needs are less obvious.

In your example, do you think the customer focus lead to pre-mature optimization and kind of tunnel-visioned the team away from further LLM development? That's another type of trade-off that's probably impossible to predict at the time. I mean who doesn't want customers.

I'm not entirely surprised that OpenAI was able to achieve so much given their structure - they had the mandate of a trendy new research lab, top talent, with 100M+ funding and no need to cater to any early customers. Seems like a great (though typically impractical) way to build big new things. Then they had the right top-level guidance when the tech was getting ready, to pivot and raise more money (unlike XEROX PARC for example).

I'm going to argue VR has camp 1 problems. My persona for this is the owner of a few Thai restaurants who is brilliant at social media and SEO marketing. I could sell him a VR project easily if he believed in the ROI. Part of that is the user base but part of it is authoring and VR authoring is expensive.

If VR is going to be like the web we need some way he can get his business in the metaverse for $5000 not $500,000. Horizon Worlds falls down flat not because Meta is stupid but because the problem is difficult -- I'd like to make WebXR content based on my photography (and stereography) but once you have big textures you start to feel the 8GB limit of the device. The art gallery I want to make would require low resolution images or would require some of the programming techniques used in open world games.

In my mind VR seems to be the future of gaming, when I see many action games like Monster Hunter World or Rise of the Tomb Raider I think I'd like to experience them in VR but practically I still keep playing a lot of flat games like Dome Keeper and Dynasty Warriors 9 because there are a lot of them and they don't take the dedication that it takes to play through a game like Asgard's Wrath 2.

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At the time I believed that better training data (business process, UX, and lots of things go into that) rather than better models was the key to products (I saw projects, including mine, that went nowhere because people did not muster the will to collect this data) so I felt we were getting a lot out of being engaged with customers.

I advocated a lot for drawing a clean line so you could reuse the same training data from different models in which case we could have had a team working on advanced models while the customer facing team gathered the data we needed to eval and refined those models over time. It would have been good if we could have gotten more VC money to hire up.